Betting Talk

danshan thread

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  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    they charge the juice because it is enough to make money
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    they charge the juice because it is enough to make money

    Right. They charge 10% and that is a hell of a charge.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    yes and the ONLY way to overcome that huge fee is to BEAT THE LINE!
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    yes and the ONLY way to overcome that huge fee is to BEAT THE LINE!

    Here we go again.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    its fact dude, there is no way to dispute it.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    its fact dude, there is no way to dispute it.

    I know you are good at math. But what did you score in reading comprehension?
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    now there actually is a way let me describe it

    you know something about the game that no one else knows in the whole world over a huge number of games to overcome variance, that is the other method of winning long term, sound feasible?

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    R40 wrote: »
    I know you are good at math. But what did you score in reading comprehension?

    oh dont give me any math credit and its obvious I deserve zero credit for grammar and my reading comprehension probably not just because of the lightning quick review of everything in life and instant to quick of judgment, so yeah dumb
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    now there actually is a way let me describe it

    you know something about the game that no one else knows in the whole world over a huge number of games to overcome variance, that is the other method of winning long term, sound feasible?

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    oh dont give me any math credit and its obvious I deserve zero credit for grammar and my reading comprehension probably not just because of the lightning quick review of everything in life and instant to quick of judgment, so yeah dumb

    We all have our strengths and weaknesses. You have strong beliefs and just do not understand how markets actually work. But that is not rare. Academics that claim to understand it, don't understand it either.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    you really think I do not know how the market works, really?
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    you really think I do not know how the market works, really?

    Yes. You have no concept of how gambling markets actually work.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    R40 wrote: »
    Yes. You have no concept of how gambling markets actually work.

    how do you mean? I just really dont get what part you think I am missing
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    how do you mean? I just really dont get what part you think I am missing

    I have explained this to you more than once. The problem is your applying market efficiency theory to the gambling market and then your idea of how and why lines move. You have a very strange idea of how this all works.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    the gambling market is entirely market efficiency if it wasn't it would not exist

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    I am speaking major known efficient markets
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    the gambling market is entirely market efficiency if it wasn't it would not exist

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    I am speaking major known efficient markets

    No, it isn't. Market efficiency is a flawed theory. The entire financial crisis was due to the belief of market efficiency even when a market was so inefficient it was obvious to anyone that looked at it and painfully obvious in hindsight. Yet no minds were changed.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    R40 wrote: »
    No, it isn't. Market efficiency is a flawed theory. The entire financial crisis was due to the belief of market efficiency even when a market was so inefficient it was obvious to anyone that looked at it and painfully obvious in hindsight. Yet no minds were changed.

    you think the sports betting market in major markets is not efficient? come on dude you know better than that. yes one or two games here or there are not efficient sure but overall the market is efficient and if we only bet 1 or 2 games that are truly not efficient you are still screwed because its not enough to overcome the variance monster ask DRH

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    I stopped all the methods I had and stopped picking 1 or 2 games per day and now do 40-50 a day because even if I truly have an edge on 1 or 2 games its not enough to consistently win.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    you think the sports betting market in major markets is not efficient? come on dude you know better than that. yes one or two games here or there are not efficient sure but overall the market is efficient and if we only bet 1 or 2 games that are truly not efficient you are still screwed because its not enough to overcome the variance monster ask DRH

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    I stopped all the methods I had and stopped picking 1 or 2 games per day and now do 40-50 a day because even if I truly have an edge on 1 or 2 games its not enough to consistently win.

    No, it is not efficient. As I have pointed out before, the NE Patriots and SA Spurs destroyed the gambling market for years despite people knowing these teams beat the market. That cannot happen in an efficient market. It cannot happen in a market that is even close to efficient. The market is efficient enough to rely on CLV and such. It is not so efficient that even casual gamblers can beat it if they have enough discipline to do so.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    you will always have those outliers in anything ie Spurs Pats but that does not diminish the market efficiency. again it is not efficient in all cases but overall!
    and casual gamblers lose long term except for SB survivors
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    you will always have those outliers in anything ie Spurs Pats but that does not diminish the market efficiency. again it is not efficient in all cases but overall!
    and casual gamblers lose long term except for SB survivors

    Casual gamblers lose on the average. Not in the specific. For a market to be efficient, it has to be efficient in ALL cases. It isn't.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    ok if every single game has to be 100% efficient than if that is the case then the market is not efficient. I think the market is overall efficient and those inefficient games are not enough for most to overcome variance
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    I can calculate the movements of heavenly bodies but not the madness of men -- Sir Isaac Newton
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    most people would not bet if they actually knew the line meant anything. most people lose before the 1st pitch is even thrown and they dont even know it
  • jets96jets96 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    So the computers in vegas say that the Dallas Cowboys are the most public bet team in america , how efficient are those lines ?

    You think Baseball lines are efficient ? I doubt it.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    cowboys

    <tbody>
    [TH="align: center"]ATS:[/TH]
    239-238-13 (-0.40, 50.1%)



    </tbody>
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    most people would not bet if they actually knew the line meant anything. most people lose before the 1st pitch is even thrown and they dont even know it

    This is your problem. You deal with people that have an edge or believe they have an edge and you apply basic theory to their case in particular.

    When you argue with professional gamblers about whether or not an edge exists, you always make the argument as if they are a novice with no edge.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    baseball last ten years or so deadly efficient


    <tbody>
    [TH="align: center"]H[/TH]



    <tbody>
    [TH="align: center"]SU:[/TH]
    20723-17703 (0.15, 53.9%)
    avg line: -128.1 / 115.5
    on / against: -$88,903 / -$102,382
    ROI: -1.7% / -2.4%




    [TH="align: center"]RL:[/TH]
    14104-16728 (-0.38, 45.7%)
    avg line: 117.0 / -131.9
    on / against: -$85,443 / -$102,125
    ROI: -2.4% / -2.3%




    [TH="align: center"]OU:[/TH]
    17909-18612-1793 (0.42, 49.0%)
    avg total: 8.6
    over / under: -$239,285 / -$109,847
    ROI: -5.7% / -2.6%

    </tbody>


    </tbody>

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    R40 wrote: »
    This is your problem. You deal with people that have an edge or believe they have an edge and you apply basic theory to their case in particular.

    When you argue with professional gamblers about whether or not an edge exists, you always make the argument as if they are a novice with no edge.


    I think some people truly have an edge, I think that number is super small and I would say 8 out of 10 people that think they have an edge probably dont, dont you agree?
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    baseball last ten years or so deadly efficient


    <tbody>
    [TH="align: center"]H[/TH]



    <tbody>
    [TH="align: center"]SU:[/TH]
    20723-17703 (0.15, 53.9%)
    avg line: -128.1 / 115.5
    on / against: -$88,903 / -$102,382
    ROI: -1.7% / -2.4%




    [TH="align: center"]RL:[/TH]
    14104-16728 (-0.38, 45.7%)
    avg line: 117.0 / -131.9
    on / against: -$85,443 / -$102,125
    ROI: -2.4% / -2.3%




    [TH="align: center"]OU:[/TH]
    17909-18612-1793 (0.42, 49.0%)
    avg total: 8.6
    over / under: -$239,285 / -$109,847
    ROI: -5.7% / -2.6%

    </tbody>


    </tbody>

    - - - Updated - - -




    I think some people truly have an edge, I think that number is super small and I would say 8 out of 10 people that think they have an edge probably dont, dont you agree?

    This means nothing to a man with an edge. You argue the point. Not that an edge is impossible.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    I am saying most people that think they have an edge dont
    An edge is truly real and there are some people with an edge, that is not a thing I have implied or think. I do think that people that have an edge and that edge is not correlated to similar line value probably dont actually have an edge long term! there are exceptions to this of course go back to my tennis guy who took my money!
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    I am saying most people that think they have an edge dont
    An edge is truly real and there are some people with an edge, that is not a thing I have implied or think. I do think that people that have an edge and that edge is not correlated to similar line value probably dont actually have an edge long term! there are exceptions to this of course go back to my tennis guy who took my money!

    Yes, you have spent tens of hours arguing this point with people that agree with you thinking they thought differently.
  • rookrook Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    OK danshan, at the half the Dream are up by 2 and 2nd half odds are Dream +.5. Can we formulate a bet out of that?
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    ok I am going to say a completely not with value guess and that is the Sparks just dont have the power to keep rolling this close. I would say Dream + anything is free money! now that sounds super toutish but its just my opinion of the tons of hours of games I have looked at in the WNBA, my bet would be Dream +.5 2nd half for sure
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