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danshan thread

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  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    8.25

    MLB: Seattle, Boston, Arizona, Cincinnati all playable in my opinion
    WNBA: LA Sparks -4, Seattle -9, Over 1H Dallas/Atlanta 75


    Seattle broke my heart last night, they can burn in H E double hockey sticks!
    I like Cincinnati today I mean that pitching matchup and only -130ish

    Sparks are on fire they will probably win by 50

    Storm will probably win by a ton too Fever have turned back again into last years team!

    Red Sox I avoid like the plague, there are 2 teams the defending champions and the barely beat the Orioles team

    - - - Updated - - -
    I'll be on Denver week 2, schedule play. Week 1 is something I will look at certain steam, and then look for overreaction for week 2 as many do. I'm waiting to see if the holding penalties continue or was it just a warning by league? Also, teams aren't set, will configure defenses/offenses and chart them out this year, something I haven't done much of in past.

    I am a diehard Broncos fan for life but I am bandwagoning a little on the Jets, I like the setup only downside I am not a Bell fan.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    Now we might know why they traded Bauer if the Pirates can crush him in 2 innings!
  • Gordon GekkoGordon Gekko Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    BET
    8-25
    Fever +9

    I was wondering why I was so off on this side? What calculations do you use the most if player A is out or Player B is out, do you use a specific stat? Like WS/40 or pts or minutes played?
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    I use a really for me advanced system where I generate an offensive grade for each player on a team.
    I get a total team points with player A
    I get a total team points with the backup
    and if A is out I adjust based on the difference from A to the backup
    example A total team points is 120 with A and with B they get a total of 118 that would be a 2 point deduction to the side
    now for the total I use to deduct or add for a player out but now that just never seems to be the case except in the NBA where the total moves a ton with 1 player out but WNBA not so much
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    BET
    8-27
    Liberty +6.5

    - - - Updated - - -

    BET
    8-27
    Sky +3.5

    - - - Updated - - -

    BET
    8-27
    Sun +1.5
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    OUCH looks like an 0-3 day, I hope the Sun come through to avoid the bad sweep!

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    no line value either, I think I am missing something, maybe the playoff seeding issues going on!

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    I am gonna air bet a couple days see if I can figure out what is going on. the line value is gone too! not just wins and losses
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    Joker is having a rough go of it today!
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    <style type="text/css"><!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}--></style>
    <colgroup><col style="width: 43px"><col width="42"><col width="83"><col width="50"></colgroup><tbody>
    Date
    City
    Teams
    Mine


    8/29
    Los
    Sparks
    -6.5


    8/29
    Indi
    Fever
    158


    8/29
    Dall
    Wings
    160.5


    8/29
    Chic
    Sky
    -7


    8/29
    Phoe
    Mercury
    -4


    8/29
    Atla
    Dream
    154

    </tbody>
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited August 2019
    Wings missing half their team dont touch that one.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    BET
    9-1
    Phoenix Under 169

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    <style type="text/css"><!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}--></style>
    <colgroup><col style="width: 43px"><col width="42"><col width="83"><col width="50"></colgroup><tbody>
    Date
    City
    Teams
    Mine


    9/1
    Phoe
    Mercury
    166


    9/1
    Chic
    Sky
    -4


    9/1
    Atla
    Dream
    150


    9/1
    Seat
    Storm
    -10


    9/1
    Indi
    Fever
    156.5


    9/1
    Minn
    Lynx
    -8

    </tbody>
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    <style type="text/css"><!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}--></style>
    <colgroup><col style="width: 100px"><col width="100"></colgroup><tbody>
    Team
    Rankings


    Mystics
    -9.90


    Sun
    -4.56


    Sparks
    -5.82


    Lynx
    -2.67


    Sky
    -2.98


    Aces
    -7.65


    Mercury
    -1.37


    Wings
    2.60


    Storm
    -4.20


    Fever
    2.14


    Dream
    4.64


    Liberty
    3.97

    </tbody>
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
  • rookrook Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    danshan wrote: »

    I think you should probably be skeptical of any under your calculations determine:

    season = 2019 and game number > 25

    O/U: 48-20-2 (70.6%)
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    thanks Rook, the issue is the line movement. I use to get very good market confirmation on most picks, I recently have lost that edge and not exactly sure why, maybe its playoff motivation not really sure.
  • rookrook Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    thanks Rook, the issue is the line movement. I use to get very good market confirmation on most picks, I recently have lost that edge and not exactly sure why, maybe its playoff motivation not really sure.

    That brings up a question for me. If you look at the closing line values of these final games of the season, do the closing line values reflect the 70% surge in overs? Are 70% of the closing totals higher than they were at the open?
  • rookrook Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    rook wrote: »
    That brings up a question for me. If you look at the closing line values of these final games of the season, do the closing line values reflect the 70% surge in overs? Are 70% of the closing totals higher than they were at the open?

    Or, trying phrase this in a more relevant manner, if CLV can be used to determine whether or not a bettor has an edge in his betting, could it no be used in the same exact way for a killersports betting trend, to help decide if the trend is due merely to variance, or perhaps is driven by some underlying cause (and therefore has an edge)?
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    it sure looks that way today, the lines are all moving up on the totals from open.

    WNBA is probably not the best market to consider CLV as strongly, small market with low limits.

    I think people try to connect CLV to winning in the short term, you need 5k+ records to even consider the line value efficiency overall.

    because the line moves from -120 to -140 that is indicative that the market thought -120 was soft and that -140 is probably more accurate but that only increases the likelihood of this being a winner by the same as the probabiltiy that -140 represents, it does not make it more likely to win than the -140 implies and the direction of the movement.

    -120 to -140 bets win as often as -140 to -140 winners win long term.
    that is where we find "value" because we only paid 120 to win 100 not 140 to win 100 and if it wins as often as -140 winner should and you only paid 120 you should have a + net.

    - - - Updated - - -

    so I guess IMHO line movements mean nothing as far being indicative of a "winner" beyond what the closing line represents the probability to be - the juice

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  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    <style type="text/css"><!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}--></style>
    <colgroup><col style="width: 43px"><col width="42"><col width="83"><col width="50"></colgroup><tbody>
    Date
    City
    Teams
    Mine


    9/5
    Las
    Aces
    -9.5


    9/5
    Atla
    Dream
    160


    9/5
    Seat
    Storm
    153.5


    9/5
    Los
    Sparks
    -5

    </tbody>

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    curious how these totals play out today, I got up early to get a jump on these lines
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    it sure looks that way today, the lines are all moving up on the totals from open.

    WNBA is probably not the best market to consider CLV as strongly, small market with low limits.

    I think people try to connect CLV to winning in the short term, you need 5k+ records to even consider the line value efficiency overall.

    because the line moves from -120 to -140 that is indicative that the market thought -120 was soft and that -140 is probably more accurate but that only increases the likelihood of this being a winner by the same as the probabiltiy that -140 represents, it does not make it more likely to win than the -140 implies and the direction of the movement.

    -120 to -140 bets win as often as -140 to -140 winners win long term.
    that is where we find "value" because we only paid 120 to win 100 not 140 to win 100 and if it wins as often as -140 winner should and you only paid 120 you should have a + net.

    - - - Updated - - -

    so I guess IMHO line movements mean nothing as far being indicative of a "winner" beyond what the closing line represents the probability to be - the juice

    - - - Updated - - -

    The struggle is real.

    You have it backwards. CLV has value in the short term. Actual results have more value than CLV over 5,000 bets.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    R40 wrote: »
    The struggle is real.

    You have it backwards. CLV has value in the short term. Actual results have more value than CLV over 5,000 bets.

    oh I was talking about the few games reference he was talking about, in a few games CLV or wins really have no indicative value
  • StJoes0610StJoes0610 Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    R40 wrote: »
    The struggle is real.

    You have it backwards. CLV has value in the short term. Actual results have more value than CLV over 5,000 bets.

    i feel like an idiot. i have to admit, i never have heard that simple statement but it is really enlightening. thanks for sharing.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    R40 wrote: »
    The struggle is real.

    You have it backwards. CLV has value in the short term. Actual results have more value than CLV over 5,000 bets.


    I was not saying that you cant use CLV short term because you can what I was saying that you cant really feel the effects of line value (CLV) for tons of picks. you could have great CLV and only 800 games and be losing, its possible you wont truly see the effects of the CLV in the short term. You should definitely without doubt use CLV for market confirmation and determining true edge short and long term.

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    R40 wrote: »
    The struggle is real.



    You have it backwards. CLV has value in the short term. Actual results have more value than CLV over 5,000 bets.



    I was not saying that you cant use CLV short term because you can what I was saying that you cant really feel the effects of line value (CLV) for tons of picks. you could have great CLV and only 800 games and be losing, its possible you wont truly see the effects of the CLV in the short term. You should definitely without doubt use CLV for market confirmation and determining true edge short and long term.

    - - - Updated - - -
    R40 wrote: »
    The struggle is real.





    You have it backwards. CLV has value in the short term. Actual results have more value than CLV over 5,000 bets.




    I was not saying that you cant use CLV short term because you can what I was saying that you cant really feel the effects of line value (CLV) for tons of picks. you could have great CLV and only 800 games and be losing, its possible you wont truly see the effects of the CLV in the short term. You should definitely without doubt use CLV for market confirmation and determining true edge short and long term.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    the absolute most important role CLV plays is as a cliff detector. We have to know if we actually have an edge and when that edge is gone before we file bankruptcy. CLV does this very well and quickly. Winning and losing can be luck for 1000s of picks!
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    the absolute most important role CLV plays is as a cliff detector. We have to know if we actually have an edge and when that edge is gone before we file bankruptcy. CLV does this very well and quickly. Winning and losing can be luck for 1000s of picks!

    Thank God for CLV.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    R40 wrote: »
    Thank God for CLV.

    I sense sarcasm, LOL
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    I hope I was clear with what I meant now. I dont want anyone to think I am downplaying the importance of line value!
  • jets96jets96 Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    so dan , last nights football game, chi was expected to score 25.25 pts , pinny close , you still think that using the 3pts they actually scored is meaningless .
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    I dont think its useless I just think 25 is more accurate than 3

    and I think next weeks total will slightly adjust down for the Bears
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    Cant miss this but 3.5 is too much for the Storm

    I will take them +3.5 as soon as my deposit confirms network been slow at BOL

    BET
    Lynx +3.5
  • ProfessorMJProfessorMJ Senior Member
    edited September 2019
    danshan wrote: »
    Cant miss this but 3.5 is too much for the Storm

    I will take them +3.5 as soon as my deposit confirms network been slow at BOL

    BET
    Lynx +3.5

    Hey Dan, where can we find your record on WNBA plays? Thanks!
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