He tries to make it very clear that he isnt an informant but rather has answered questions for government officials to get them to go away. What's the difference? Sounds like snitching either way imo.
Towards the end of the article he brags about having 250k on a small conference game and the line not budging from -1. Was he able to do that by having so many outs that allowed such big bets or by betting both sides and guaranteeing himself a nice profit?
Back in the day playing RAS was like printing money......but the market now is so hard to beat.....Maybe he just got tired of it...........or maybe it's too hard to beat
Back in the day playing RAS was like printing money......but the market now is so hard to beat.....Maybe he just got tired of it...........or maybe it's too hard to beat
A market with this many options will never be 100% efficient.
Agreed. That said, if Adam Silver were successful in lobbying for a regulated sports gambling industry, then would we likely see exchanges such as Betfair and a highly efficient market on all heavily traded sports? I think that it will eventually happen, and that is exactly what we will eventually see. Of course, even though the percent edge might reduce in such a scenario, the volume, low vig, and transaction ease will all more than make up for it. Would like to hear others thoughts on the matter...
Of course, even though the percent edge might reduce in such a scenario, the volume, low vig, and transaction ease will all more than make up for it. Would like to hear others thoughts on the matter...
You guys believe that bringing in the government will be good for 'your' industry? A third party that rakes your bottomline on every wager you make? SRN828, you really think the trade off for transaction facilitation is worth the inevitable gouge?
I've heard the same propaganda prior to Howie Samuels starting NY OTB. May they rest in peace. Graft et al. If you are an AP now, you know better.
I've read Edward's self-serving arguments that "more options are good." Indeed, for him. For the daily grinders, status quo is fine.
You guys believe that bringing in the government will be good for 'your' industry? A third party that rakes your bottomline on every wager you make? SRN828, you really think the trade off for transaction facilitation is worth the inevitable gouge?
I've heard the same propaganda prior to Howie Samuels starting NY OTB. May they rest in peace. Graft et al. If you are an AP now, you know better.
I've read Edward's self-serving arguments that "more options are good." Indeed, for him. For the daily grinders, status quo is fine.
Definitely not speaking of governmentally run industry (speaking of licensure and oversight). I am not aware of any governmental run sports betting industry around the world; therefore, I am highly skeptical that such a model would be implemented. Private exchanges will immediately come in once legality is established. I suspect Betfair, which already has large world market share, trading hundreds of millions of dollars on a weekly basis I'd estimate, will swoop into the market. That, I feel, will be a very good thing...
Definitely not speaking of governmentally run industry (speaking of licensure and oversight). I am not aware of any governmental run sports betting industry around the world; therefore, I am highly skeptical that such a model would be implemented.
Canadian Crown corporations are enterprises owned by the Crown,[1] or Queen, in right of Canada[2] (the federal state) or in right of a province (a provincial state).[3] They are established by an act of the relevant parliament and report to that body via a minister of the Crown in the relevant cabinet,[4] though they are "shielded from constant government intervention and legislative oversight" and thus "generally enjoy greater freedom from direct political control than government departments."[4]
The Gaming Policy and Enforcement Division (GPE) is the regulatory government agency responsible for all gaming activities in British Columbia. BCLC,is the operational arm of the government
Canadian Crown corporations are enterprises owned by the Crown,[1] or Queen, in right of Canada[2] (the federal state) or in right of a province (a provincial state).[3] They are established by an act of the relevant parliament and report to that body via a minister of the Crown in the relevant cabinet,[4] though they are "shielded from constant government intervention and legislative oversight" and thus "generally enjoy greater freedom from direct political control than government departments."[4]
The Gaming Policy and Enforcement Division (GPE) is the regulatory government agency responsible for all gaming activities in British Columbia. BCLC,is the operational arm of the government
The text you provided certainly satisfies my definition of being " government run." If you would like to form a more strict definition of "government run," that is certainly your prerogative; although I would see that activity as really picking at the bones.
And FYI, I am not suggesting that an entity like https://www.playnow.com (adapted to the U.S. of course) would handle significant action or be anywhere near sufficient to handle the U.S. market. I'm expecting a lot of failure when the move to government regulation in the U.S. is made. Although, I am hoping the leagues are smart enough to know that they need the big dogs of the industry in order to generate the profit they are interested in. Will be interesting.
By now, many of you have probably read a recent article in ESPN the Magazine about Billy Walters, written by investigative reporter Mike Fish, who did some extensive research for the piece. I was a part of that research, and subsequently became part of the article. And while almost all that Mike wrote was true (perhaps all; there are particular events outside of my scope of knowledge), there was one glaring part that was not. What Billy said about me.
So lets set the record straight. Here is Billys quote - "He has no clue how my operation runs. Unfortunately, David wasn't successful in what he did, and I discontinued the relationship." And I know many of you will be shocked, shocked, to find out that something he said wasnt true.
Mike and I spoke extensively on one occasion here in Las Vegas, and then several times over the phone, once we had established the proper comfort level. That was important, because it is indeed a delicate subject. So much so that there was a third party at the Las Vegas meeting, which took place at an off-the-grid local café. Over time there was a factual basis established for much of how large betting syndicates work, and a few particulars about Billys organization, with me limiting that to items that are relatively common knowledge, and could cause no harm to anyone. As such, Mike was told many times that a particular question he asked could not be answered.
So much for the background. Billy and I did business twice, for four football/college basketball seasons back in the 1990s, and two more recently (the last basketball season incomplete, which I will deal with in a moment). Our business relationship came to an end in December of 2013. I cant imagine any set of circumstances that would lead to us ever speaking again.
He has no clue how my operation runs. This is a lie, easily countered; actually I do. Many that were formerly under Billys umbrella are social friends of mine. Stories of dealing with him are legendary, and make for wonderful dinner conversations. A well-placed 3-wood from my house would land in the backyard of a gentleman that was one of the most important people in Billys organization for nearly two decades (I am not that good, by the way; if I landed the ball in his yard it would likely roll right through and into a ditch). Billy would be more than welcome to listen to the tapes of my discussions with Mike, and point out anything I said that was not true. What Billy was trying to say, most likely, is that he does not want anyone to think that I have a clue, so that there are no vulnerabilities established for the future. Usually he is better than this with the language.
Here is the sad part until he made that comment, Billy had no need to fear of anything. Out of a professional courtesy I went out of my way with Mike to show him in a positive light. If Mike were asked who said the best things about Billy of anyone that he interviewed, I would not be surprised if I was at or near the top of the list. But Billy has his fears, and he should because of the intricacies in his network of dealings, a healthy paranoia has necessarily had to become a part of his daily routine. What he can add to those fears is that he has now broken the code, and that whatever professional courtesies I extended to him in the past have reached their expiration date. I may never speak a word about him after I sign off on this piece, but if I could correct a harm, it is certainly something I would take under consideration.
Unfortunately, David wasnt successful in what he did Note the careful wording being used there, vague phrasing without specifics. Just what was it that I did? He leaves it open for only himself to define (better with the language, this time). I have meticulous records of every transaction that was done with Billy over the course of our business relationship. When you deal with him, it is necessary. Did I win over the course of the relationship? Absolutely. It is not a matter of anyones opinion, it is a matter of the bottom line. That same bottom line would be in his records, which are also meticulous. Ironically, there is an * - through all of the years that I have been in this endeavor, only once has anyone ever cancelled a ticket on a game while it was in progress. It was Billy. So our figures might be off on that one particular game. I chart it is a win, to this day. He probably doesnt.
and I discontinued the relationship. There is a heavy load of bullshit there in the implications behind the causation. The relationship ended late on a Monday morning, December 30 of 2013. It ended at that particular moment because of a mistake that Billy had made, among the biggest of his sports betting career. It was a conversation that will be forever remembered from my end because of his tone of voice, one that I had not heard before (extremely down and dispirited). But I was not alone in having such a conversation that very day, or was told a variation of the same base story, and heard that tone of voice. No face-to-face meetings, only phone calls. Defining. Billy made a bad mistake, and in the aftermath a few even worse ones to compound matters. For me that episode ultimately ended up being liberating; getting out from underneath the confinements of that umbrella, and into the fresh air and sunshine again, was going to soon be necessary anyway. But Billys treatment of one particular individual through that period was nothing short of reprehensible. If he reads this, he will know who I am talking about. This story has been kept deathly quiet, but there may come a time in which the Chief reason why the fall-out that took place on that day becomes common knowledge.
So there is the reality. Billy has been a fascinating character to both compete against and work with, a Gatsby-esque tale of the American dream taken nearly to its zenith, before the light at the end of the pier changed. He has been remarkably successful in the financial sense, developing particular skills to a level that precious few could ever come close to. When asked recently the best way to describe him, my offering was If he walked into an optometrists office and read the eye chart wrong, the doctor would believe him and throw out the chart. He really is that good. At some things.
But now the rub. Before moving to Las Vegas, Billy was a car salesman (ironically, in the business world he still is, as things come full circle), and never stopped being one. He found those same skills to be most useful in other fields. His professional lifetime has been built around knowing how to only show the best parts of a vehicle, without allowing a potential buyer to see under the hood. I believe his fear, which led to that particular quote about me, was that someone was being shown under the hood. I am better than that, but it is not something that he would necessarily recognize, because he isnt.
An unfortunate irony for ESPN is that I was not privy that his quote was going to run before the article was published. Had I known that the code had been broken, I might have answered more of Mikes questions. Not out of any spite, but instead because there are truths out there that many would like to know, but can not access. Important truths. Just what did Billy tell the investigator in that fascinating meeting up on the mountain? Hell, I could have handed Mike the transcript. It was given to me two decades ago by a prominent local figure, prior to the first time that Billy and I shook hands, with the pretext of file this away, if you are going to be doing business with him you will need it someday.
It makes for fascinating reading. And it is also why I feel genuinely qualified to write this column. I have the utmost admiration for what Billy has done in the gambling world. That will not waver. His shrewdness and tenacity accomplished things that likely no one else ever will. But I do not have an ounce of respect for the man.
The main reason I admire this Jekyll and Hyde SOB is the charity work he and his wife Susan do for Opportunity Village for challenged children. They were board members for many years.
DM can sure make a pencil sing. I would cut off my little pinkie to write like that. Anyway, in my brief business dealings with the guy I found him to be bright, classy and above the board honest. In very limited and indirect dealings with a BW associate I would have to say the same.
DM can sure make a pencil sing. I would cut off my little pinkie to write like that. Anyway, in my brief business dealings with the guy I found him to be bright, classy and above the board honest. In very limited and indirect dealings with a BW associate I would have to say the same.
Tinfoil.com :laughing: J/K
Sounds to me like David will let the cat out of the bag, if BW needles him 1 more time. Come on Billy you can do it, the whole world is waiting to hear your dirty gambling secrets like bailing players out of trouble that can't help themselves from committing petty crimes.
In fact, the cricket world cup is about to start in a week. I am pretty certain one could get down millions on many matches during the tournament. The same tends to be the case for all of the grand slam tennis events. I will pay attention to what someone can get down on the Wimbledon final this year, but I would not be shocked if it is 8 figures.
DM can sure make a pencil sing. I would cut off my little pinkie to write like that. Anyway, in my brief business dealings with the guy I found him to be bright, classy and above the board honest. In very limited and indirect dealings with a BW associate I would have to say the same.
Considering Malinsky is the editor-in-chief of news for Pregame.com, I thought this was the quote of the article: "Unfortunately, David wasn't successful in what he did, and I discontinued the relationship."
Yeah, DM is a very impressive writer, he should write a book or two. Back in a day when he was a member of covers experts, I enjoyed reading his articles, there were so many well written pieces of information and angles in it. Too bad I don't have an archive of it.
buythehook
Senior Member
Comments
Couple questions I have....
He tries to make it very clear that he isnt an informant but rather has answered questions for government officials to get them to go away. What's the difference? Sounds like snitching either way imo.
Towards the end of the article he brags about having 250k on a small conference game and the line not budging from -1. Was he able to do that by having so many outs that allowed such big bets or by betting both sides and guaranteeing himself a nice profit?
There's an item from CBS 60 minutes online, where he's been profiled. Worth the watch. Also get the book from Michael Konik called 'The Smart Money'.
Yes, 250K is pocket change for him.
PS LOL @ David Malinsky. Billy made him look like a fool.
Malinsky can't bee a fool, he's part of the same company that HAS THE 2 TIME HILTON CHAMPION STEVE FEZZIK.
I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth, especially when he knows everyone is going to read it.
Market's efficient, everybody go home. :shifty:
A market with this many options will never be 100% efficient.
Agreed. That said, if Adam Silver were successful in lobbying for a regulated sports gambling industry, then would we likely see exchanges such as Betfair and a highly efficient market on all heavily traded sports? I think that it will eventually happen, and that is exactly what we will eventually see. Of course, even though the percent edge might reduce in such a scenario, the volume, low vig, and transaction ease will all more than make up for it. Would like to hear others thoughts on the matter...
You guys believe that bringing in the government will be good for 'your' industry? A third party that rakes your bottomline on every wager you make? SRN828, you really think the trade off for transaction facilitation is worth the inevitable gouge?
I've heard the same propaganda prior to Howie Samuels starting NY OTB. May they rest in peace. Graft et al. If you are an AP now, you know better.
I've read Edward's self-serving arguments that "more options are good." Indeed, for him. For the daily grinders, status quo is fine.
Definitely not speaking of governmentally run industry (speaking of licensure and oversight). I am not aware of any governmental run sports betting industry around the world; therefore, I am highly skeptical that such a model would be implemented. Private exchanges will immediately come in once legality is established. I suspect Betfair, which already has large world market share, trading hundreds of millions of dollars on a weekly basis I'd estimate, will swoop into the market. That, I feel, will be a very good thing...
https://www.playnow.com
Canadian Crown corporations are enterprises owned by the Crown,[1] or Queen, in right of Canada[2] (the federal state) or in right of a province (a provincial state).[3] They are established by an act of the relevant parliament and report to that body via a minister of the Crown in the relevant cabinet,[4] though they are "shielded from constant government intervention and legislative oversight" and thus "generally enjoy greater freedom from direct political control than government departments."[4]
The Gaming Policy and Enforcement Division (GPE) is the regulatory government agency responsible for all gaming activities in British Columbia. BCLC,is the operational arm of the government
The text you provided certainly satisfies my definition of being " government run." If you would like to form a more strict definition of "government run," that is certainly your prerogative; although I would see that activity as really picking at the bones.
And FYI, I am not suggesting that an entity like https://www.playnow.com (adapted to the U.S. of course) would handle significant action or be anywhere near sufficient to handle the U.S. market. I'm expecting a lot of failure when the move to government regulation in the U.S. is made. Although, I am hoping the leagues are smart enough to know that they need the big dogs of the industry in order to generate the profit they are interested in. Will be interesting.
Point Blank - A Special Edition
Billy and Me
By now, many of you have probably read a recent article in ESPN the Magazine about Billy Walters, written by investigative reporter Mike Fish, who did some extensive research for the piece. I was a part of that research, and subsequently became part of the article. And while almost all that Mike wrote was true (perhaps all; there are particular events outside of my scope of knowledge), there was one glaring part that was not. What Billy said about me.
So lets set the record straight. Here is Billys quote - "He has no clue how my operation runs. Unfortunately, David wasn't successful in what he did, and I discontinued the relationship." And I know many of you will be shocked, shocked, to find out that something he said wasnt true.
Mike and I spoke extensively on one occasion here in Las Vegas, and then several times over the phone, once we had established the proper comfort level. That was important, because it is indeed a delicate subject. So much so that there was a third party at the Las Vegas meeting, which took place at an off-the-grid local café. Over time there was a factual basis established for much of how large betting syndicates work, and a few particulars about Billys organization, with me limiting that to items that are relatively common knowledge, and could cause no harm to anyone. As such, Mike was told many times that a particular question he asked could not be answered.
So much for the background. Billy and I did business twice, for four football/college basketball seasons back in the 1990s, and two more recently (the last basketball season incomplete, which I will deal with in a moment). Our business relationship came to an end in December of 2013. I cant imagine any set of circumstances that would lead to us ever speaking again.
He has no clue how my operation runs. This is a lie, easily countered; actually I do. Many that were formerly under Billys umbrella are social friends of mine. Stories of dealing with him are legendary, and make for wonderful dinner conversations. A well-placed 3-wood from my house would land in the backyard of a gentleman that was one of the most important people in Billys organization for nearly two decades (I am not that good, by the way; if I landed the ball in his yard it would likely roll right through and into a ditch). Billy would be more than welcome to listen to the tapes of my discussions with Mike, and point out anything I said that was not true. What Billy was trying to say, most likely, is that he does not want anyone to think that I have a clue, so that there are no vulnerabilities established for the future. Usually he is better than this with the language.
Here is the sad part until he made that comment, Billy had no need to fear of anything. Out of a professional courtesy I went out of my way with Mike to show him in a positive light. If Mike were asked who said the best things about Billy of anyone that he interviewed, I would not be surprised if I was at or near the top of the list. But Billy has his fears, and he should because of the intricacies in his network of dealings, a healthy paranoia has necessarily had to become a part of his daily routine. What he can add to those fears is that he has now broken the code, and that whatever professional courtesies I extended to him in the past have reached their expiration date. I may never speak a word about him after I sign off on this piece, but if I could correct a harm, it is certainly something I would take under consideration.
Unfortunately, David wasnt successful in what he did Note the careful wording being used there, vague phrasing without specifics. Just what was it that I did? He leaves it open for only himself to define (better with the language, this time). I have meticulous records of every transaction that was done with Billy over the course of our business relationship. When you deal with him, it is necessary. Did I win over the course of the relationship? Absolutely. It is not a matter of anyones opinion, it is a matter of the bottom line. That same bottom line would be in his records, which are also meticulous. Ironically, there is an * - through all of the years that I have been in this endeavor, only once has anyone ever cancelled a ticket on a game while it was in progress. It was Billy. So our figures might be off on that one particular game. I chart it is a win, to this day. He probably doesnt.
and I discontinued the relationship. There is a heavy load of bullshit there in the implications behind the causation. The relationship ended late on a Monday morning, December 30 of 2013. It ended at that particular moment because of a mistake that Billy had made, among the biggest of his sports betting career. It was a conversation that will be forever remembered from my end because of his tone of voice, one that I had not heard before (extremely down and dispirited). But I was not alone in having such a conversation that very day, or was told a variation of the same base story, and heard that tone of voice. No face-to-face meetings, only phone calls. Defining. Billy made a bad mistake, and in the aftermath a few even worse ones to compound matters. For me that episode ultimately ended up being liberating; getting out from underneath the confinements of that umbrella, and into the fresh air and sunshine again, was going to soon be necessary anyway. But Billys treatment of one particular individual through that period was nothing short of reprehensible. If he reads this, he will know who I am talking about. This story has been kept deathly quiet, but there may come a time in which the Chief reason why the fall-out that took place on that day becomes common knowledge.
So there is the reality. Billy has been a fascinating character to both compete against and work with, a Gatsby-esque tale of the American dream taken nearly to its zenith, before the light at the end of the pier changed. He has been remarkably successful in the financial sense, developing particular skills to a level that precious few could ever come close to. When asked recently the best way to describe him, my offering was If he walked into an optometrists office and read the eye chart wrong, the doctor would believe him and throw out the chart. He really is that good. At some things.
But now the rub. Before moving to Las Vegas, Billy was a car salesman (ironically, in the business world he still is, as things come full circle), and never stopped being one. He found those same skills to be most useful in other fields. His professional lifetime has been built around knowing how to only show the best parts of a vehicle, without allowing a potential buyer to see under the hood. I believe his fear, which led to that particular quote about me, was that someone was being shown under the hood. I am better than that, but it is not something that he would necessarily recognize, because he isnt.
An unfortunate irony for ESPN is that I was not privy that his quote was going to run before the article was published. Had I known that the code had been broken, I might have answered more of Mikes questions. Not out of any spite, but instead because there are truths out there that many would like to know, but can not access. Important truths. Just what did Billy tell the investigator in that fascinating meeting up on the mountain? Hell, I could have handed Mike the transcript. It was given to me two decades ago by a prominent local figure, prior to the first time that Billy and I shook hands, with the pretext of file this away, if you are going to be doing business with him you will need it someday.
It makes for fascinating reading. And it is also why I feel genuinely qualified to write this column. I have the utmost admiration for what Billy has done in the gambling world. That will not waver. His shrewdness and tenacity accomplished things that likely no one else ever will. But I do not have an ounce of respect for the man.
I thought the same. Very impressive writer.
Wasn't there a link between Pregame (RJ Bell) and a Major PR Firm? Which was why he got connected to ESPN?
Sounds to me like David will let the cat out of the bag, if BW needles him 1 more time. Come on Billy you can do it, the whole world is waiting to hear your dirty gambling secrets like bailing players out of trouble that can't help themselves from committing petty crimes.
Depends on the event (major events, yes). It would not surprise me if someone could theoretically get 8 figures down on a big soccer game.
I did say governmentally run sports betting industry
In fact, the cricket world cup is about to start in a week. I am pretty certain one could get down millions on many matches during the tournament. The same tends to be the case for all of the grand slam tennis events. I will pay attention to what someone can get down on the Wimbledon final this year, but I would not be shocked if it is 8 figures.
Considering Malinsky is the editor-in-chief of news for Pregame.com, I thought this was the quote of the article: "Unfortunately, David wasn't successful in what he did, and I discontinued the relationship."
There you go, you have it with an extensive forum discussion.
http://pregame.com/pregame-forums/f/14/t/1164386.aspx