Betting Talk

Are there any legit services out there?

elwayisgodelwayisgod Senior Member
edited November 2013 in Sports Betting
Seriously, I know RAS is legit, it's just not for me as I can never get the plays in fast enough and end up having huge variances in lines.

Are there any other football services that are worth a darn?
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Comments

  • BennyProfaneBennyProfane Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    No. Don't ever pay for picks. Ever. If you need to know what games a paricular service has released, there are ways to find that information without paying for it. Other than that, you're better off following one of the better cappers here or off of rtp.
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited August 2013
    No. Don't ever pay for picks. Ever. If you need to know what games a paricular service has released, there are ways to find that information without paying for it. Other than that, you're better off following one of the better cappers here or off of rtp.

    Generally true, but your statement is too absolute IMO. No reason not to pay for a legit, winning service like RAS or StevieY if you can get down on their plays. You might be able to find their plays for free, but usually not before they have created steam.
  • Obi OneObi One Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    elwayisgod wrote: »
    Seriously, I know RAS is legit, it's just not for me as I can never get the plays in fast enough and end up having huge variances in lines.

    Are there any other football services that are worth a darn?

    This discussion was held last year around this time too. The answer is basically: no. As in: NOOOOOOO!. 95% are downright shady. The other 4.5% were good in flashes, but had trouble keeping records straight. They couldn't prove that they were +EV in the long term.

    My opinion: Look for StevieY and Buffetgambler for long term profitability (and remember, that's with negative variance included)

    Good Luck
  • NFLPicksGuyNFLPicksGuy Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    If by "legit" you mean honest and hard working, there are several. If you mean consitent "winning", there are very few. I subscribe to 2-3 different type services, one is analysis and picks, and another is just analysis and unique angles on stats etc. I don't know how to personally message on here but if you want to I'd be glad to tell you my experiences with honest services and how I have used them (ie not blindly follow but use them for additional resources and extra eyes. Unless you don't enjoy doing your own research and have no time, then you definitely don't want multiple sources coming at you and you should just blindly follow someone on here and enjoy watching the games).
  • JalapanoseJalapanose Banned
    edited August 2013
    Given sufficient bankroll and archaic, sure-to-pay-slow-to-move outs, RAS would easily be worth it. Nothing else with a proven edge out there, as Benny said - better off playing the solid free +EV posters out there.

    Alternatively, start a little post-up operation and reap the rewards of the multitude of services selling their picks.
  • hotbustophotbustop Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Been a Dr Bob cfb and basketball guy for a long time and have been winning. Honest and sincere. He is giving up the NFL this year because he realized he doesn't have the advantage over the house as he did in the earlier years. But he is smart enough to know it and has hired someone else to provide the NFL plays. But you don't have to buy that service to get his CFB plays.

    Good Luck
  • elwayisgodelwayisgod Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    What does +EV and 'start a little post-up operation' mean? Sorry new to some lingo. Also, I'm not looking for a quick buck because I'm down. I just don't want to have to think about the picks. I want to win over the long haul. Try and not lose every week and when I do lose a week, it's not a disaster. More consistent winning weeks over the entire football season. How would I follow StevieY and Buffetgambler? Not sure how to do that.
  • baseRunnerbaseRunner Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    elwayisgod wrote: »
    What does +EV and 'start a little post-up operation' mean? Sorry new to some lingo. Also, I'm not looking for a quick buck because I'm down. I just don't want to have to think about the picks. I want to win over the long haul. Try and not lose every week and when I do lose a week, it's not a disaster. More consistent winning weeks over the entire football season. How would I follow StevieY and Buffetgambler? Not sure how to do that.

    One thing that strikes me about your post- if you're after more consistency, gambling is definitely not something you want to be involved in, even if you are a long term winner. On a daily basis, it is virtually impossible to tell the difference between a 54% bettor's record versus a coin flipper. They look the same from "up close." Point being- if you care at all about money, there will always be weeks that look like a "disaster." And if you don't, nothing is a disaster. Making +EV (positive expected value) bets is half the picture, the other equally important part is your relationship with money.
  • elwayisgodelwayisgod Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Yes. What I mean by disaster is if I'm a $100 player, I'm hoping to avoid those 2K losing weeks. If I lose $500 or so, so be it, but trying to avoid those 10 straight loss weeks. And yes would love some type of real money management system not these stupid 100 Dime, 1000 Start BS that's out there....
  • baseRunnerbaseRunner Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Yeah, 10 straight losses is still very common though, even if you're on the right side all 10 times. I've been through two or three skids like that just in the last couple months.

    As far as money management, I'd put down a fixed bankroll- say $1000, or whatever you can absolutely afford to part with (i.e. you would not blink an eye if it disappeared immediately), and bet exactly 1 or 2% of it on each play- but ALWAYS the same percent, no matter how good of a play you think it is. And as the season goes along, increase your wager amounts when you win, and- more importantly- decrease them when you lose. Be consistent, always. Even if your bets are -EV, this will give you a better control and restraint. And if your bets are +EV, it's the "correct" way to grow your roll. GL.
  • TexasHookEmTexasHookEm Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    elwayisgod wrote: »
    Yes. What I mean by disaster is if I'm a $100 player

    I know you said you can't get down fast enough anyways, but even if you could, you definitely shouldn't be buying RAS football if you're only betting $100/game.
  • elwayisgodelwayisgod Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    What would you need to bet in order to play RAS? I'm usually $300 to $500.
  • homerplayerhomerplayer Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    elwayisgod wrote: »
    Are there any other football services that are worth a darn?

    Nope and here is why.

    I love telling this story, can't imagine other people not being sick of it though. So when i had the opportunity to start charging for plays, i e-mailed Edward to pick his brain. Now I had been a member in good standing here at BT, but still, who the fuck am i? RAS cranking out hundreds of thousands of dollars yearly, but still answered my initial e-mail. on top of that, Edward also kept up the dialogue for a few weeks as questions arose. i was then, and am now, nobody of distinction, but he took the time to help me out. so much respect for RAS!!

    So i run this service for 3 years, hit 57%, use multiple independent monitor sites and at the start of the 4th year, i had less subscribers returning. it was not worth my time and effort any longer.

    it is the theory of Sharp money in the Market, but in reverse. theory goes that eventually Sharp/Smart money will overwhelm public money until nothing is left of the public, paraphrased of course, hopefully you get the idea. in capping, your performance means nothing, but your marketing and money invested therein does.

    everything Ed told me could/would happen did. the market is so completely saturated with cappers, that unless you have vast amounts of money to invest in marketing, gaining a foothold will be next to impossible. anyone trying to break into the business now faces an uphill battle like you would not believe. if you aren't already established, or fortunate enough to be linked to some already established, you are F-ed in the A. i hate to say the following cuz i don't want to sound like a loud mouthed, egotistical, pompous ass, (anyone knowing me in real life will know of my humility on these matters) but how many services did i outperform over those 3 years, and which one of us is still in business?

    you can't make money selling winning picks, you can make a fuckton of money selling dreams.
  • Dr. HDr. H Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Nope and here is why.

    I love telling this story, can't imagine other people not being sick of it though. So when i had the opportunity to start charging for plays, i e-mailed Edward to pick his brain. Now I had been a member in good standing here at BT, but still, who the fuck am i? RAS cranking out hundreds of thousands of dollars yearly, but still answered my initial e-mail. on top of that, Edward also kept up the dialogue for a few weeks as questions arose. i was then, and am now, nobody of distinction, but he took the time to help me out. so much respect for RAS!!

    So i run this service for 3 years, hit 57%, use multiple independent monitor sites and at the start of the 4th year, i had less subscribers returning. it was not worth my time and effort any longer.

    it is the theory of Sharp money in the Market, but in reverse. theory goes that eventually Sharp/Smart money will overwhelm public money until nothing is left of the public, paraphrased of course, hopefully you get the idea. in capping, your performance means nothing, but your marketing and money invested therein does.

    everything Ed told me could/would happen did. the market is so completely saturated with cappers, that unless you have vast amounts of money to invest in marketing, gaining a foothold will be next to impossible. anyone trying to break into the business now faces an uphill battle like you would not believe. if you aren't already established, or fortunate enough to be linked to some already established, you are F-ed in the A. i hate to say the following cuz i don't want to sound like a loud mouthed, egotistical, pompous ass, (anyone knowing me in real life will know of my humility on these matters) but how many services did i outperform over those 3 years, and which one of us is still in business?

    you can't make money selling winning picks, you can make a fuckton of money selling dreams.

    If you're truly capable of hitting 57% in the NFL with any volume, you should be a millionaire several times over before long, if not already.
  • David LarryDavid Larry Junior Member
    edited August 2013
    Yeah if you can hit 57% in the NFL year in and year out I'm pretty sure some syndicate out there would be drooling over you.
  • homerplayerhomerplayer Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Dr. H wrote: »
    If you're truly capable of hitting 57% in the NFL with any volume, you should be a millionaire several times over before long, if not already.

    excellent point. only 17 regular season weeks. and in the biggest, baddest Market in North America, how many lines do you think are off from, say week 5 out?

    which is another good point on judging cappers, no capper could possibly have a +EV play on every SNF and MNF game. no way in hell you will ever convince me the Market makes mistakes on 30% or more of games per week.

    i would have to go back and find the exact numbers, but i prob averaged 45 plays or so per season, that is reg and post season combined, less than 3 per week.

    and i'm pretty sure syndicates have persons far more capable than myself, thus their position in the sports betting universe.
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Yea but if you can beat the NFL you should be able to beat every other market too and ship millions.
  • David LarryDavid Larry Junior Member
    edited August 2013
    Not saying 57% across 45 plays it bad by any means, but that's your problem right there.
    No average Joe is gonna want "just" 4 units or so of profit. In their brains that's not very good. Less than 3 plays a week is very small volume.

    To be a successful service you must win over the sharp community, syndicates, pro gamblers, etc.
  • homerplayerhomerplayer Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    durito wrote: »
    Yea but if you can beat the NFL you should be able to beat every other market too and ship millions.

    i've tried it. i am absolutely horrid at trying to cap any other sport. which is why i think you said 'beat' other markets. i can cap NFL, but nothing else to save my life.

    and i am learning to beat other markets; and as you are well aware, successful bettors aren't in the business giving away their Edge for free.
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    how u guys come up with saying that 57% winner in the NFL or any sport can make you a millionaire
    lets assume you bet every game in 17 weeks which is about 272 games
    You would need to win 155 plays and lose 137 and bet close to 35K per game to win your first Million.
    If you play 3,500 a game would take you 10 years at 57%
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    If you start with 10k and bet .5 kelly at 57% with -110 odds your expected roll will reach a million at around 1,075 bets. If you start with 50k you only need 700 bets (or just 351 if you bet full kelly)

    The point is if you are sharp enough to find 57% wagers in a market as large as the NFL, you should be able to do it in all the smaller markets as well which should lead to thousands of wagers per year which yes will make you a multimillionaire in no time.
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Then yes of course. I misunderstood and thought flat wagers only so at -110 in the NFL would take 10 years at 3500 per wager at 57%
    assuming u make 272 plays
  • homerplayerhomerplayer Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    durito wrote: »
    The point is if you are sharp enough to find 57% wagers in a market as large as the NFL, you should be able to do it in all the smaller markets as well which should lead to thousands of wagers per year which yes will make you a multimillionaire in no time.

    but that is where a distinction needs to be made. i don't consider myself Sharp in the NFL. i feel like 55% over 350+ plays posted on BT is pretty darn solid, but by no means am i Sharp. i've been lucky enough that my unique approach has yet to be priced out of the Market.

    there is a difference between capping games and 'finding' 57% winners in other Markets. but i am learning.

    real life keeps getting in the way as well. dug out from the original medical bills from my wife getting sick. April 23rd, 2011. finally diagnosed with abnormal brain waves and anxiety. monthly medical bills now though $500 or so a month. but here is a line i am fond of and will use now, "95% of people don't care about your problems, the other 5% are glad it is you." that 5% is prob higher on BT for me!! but then you survive that, position yourself for small summer growth to be able to bet serious coin again in the Fall and SY shits the bed. just can't get out.

    anyway Durito, if you want to front me $10K, i will pay you back 10 fold in a 20 years when i hit 1,000 NFL plays
  • JalapanoseJalapanose Banned
    edited August 2013
    Putting aside my skepticism that the blah blah blah 57% actually happened against WA lines, etc., hitting that number now in today's market would take significantly stronger chops.

    But cool story anyway!
  • elwayisgodelwayisgod Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Who are good people to follow on here for baseball?
  • NFLPicksGuyNFLPicksGuy Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    You can probably guess this by my name.. but I disagree that if you can find an edge in NFL then you can find an edge in other markets. AND I believe that someone can hit 57% 3 years in a row and NOT be a millionaire, and maybe never have a winning year again. You put 200,000 blind monkeys in a room placing bets and a few of them will hit 57% 3 years in a row, statistically it must happen to someone, just because he's a poster on a forum you frequent doesn't mean it wasn't him.
  • buythehookbuythehook Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Jalapanose wrote: »
    Given sufficient bankroll and archaic, sure-to-pay-slow-to-move outs.

    That's is so correct, it is very hard to find a good book that pays out and lines are slow to move... That is my biggest challenge!
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Sure. I mean I am running at -6% over 512 golf bets with an average edge v pinny close of 3.1%
  • homerplayerhomerplayer Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Jalapanose wrote: »
    Putting aside my skepticism that the blah blah blah 57% actually happened against WA lines, etc., hitting that number now in today's market would take significantly stronger chops.

    But cool story anyway!

    So I am to assume you are questioning my BT record, my integrity and my ability as well?
  • originalokieoriginalokie Senior Member
    edited August 2013
    Homeplayer,

    Would you be so kind as to take $1.280 on the second Tuesday of each week for your picks?

    I'm in, Babe!!!

    Thanks
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