Banned from Bookmaker loyalty program, help please
UMcanes3
Senior Member
Here is the chat:
bkr#####: Hello, why was I "banned from loyalty program"?
VIP Representative: Hello Sir. That was as per Management.
bkr#####: Why?
VIP Representative: I'm not sure, Sir. But that's what the note saids in your account.
bkr#####: May I speak with someone about this?
VIP Representative: They do not take chats, Sir.
VIP Representative: Or phone calls as well.
I had over 100,000 bet points worth over $750. I am relatively new to this and I would love some advice as to what I can do about this. Any help is much appreciated, Thanks
bkr#####: Hello, why was I "banned from loyalty program"?
VIP Representative: Hello Sir. That was as per Management.
bkr#####: Why?
VIP Representative: I'm not sure, Sir. But that's what the note saids in your account.
bkr#####: May I speak with someone about this?
VIP Representative: They do not take chats, Sir.
VIP Representative: Or phone calls as well.
I had over 100,000 bet points worth over $750. I am relatively new to this and I would love some advice as to what I can do about this. Any help is much appreciated, Thanks
Comments
Oh yeah, fair? That's where the Ferris Wheel is.
They won't even talk to you tells you something about how they feel about there clients. Was that Free play or cash, Had to be free play. The best Loyalty program was bet Jam I don't think anyone can top this. Every couple /Three months I would email them and tell them please add my loyalty free play to my account. Right before about 2 months before they closed up to US customers I earned $600 in free play and bet one $50 ML R/R for three consecutive days and hit them all. I can't remember what I picked up somewhere over 4k for the free play and they never said anything to me when it came time they move my money to Heritage. I really can't remember how much but it was a nice little score for free.
Everyone claims Bookmaker great book. I have an account there but never funded and I get cold calls from them almost every week to me that's a red flag. As a matter of fact I got a call Monday I must have delete it I just looked. After the call they usually sent you an email. Sorry for your troubles Helmut is giving good advice take a shot
Because my delivery can be sarcastic the message is ACCURATE. Helmut's advice will reach deaf ears(MR). Old Timer did you give out "whale" comps to sharp card counters? Welcome to the real world UMcanes.
2. Let it be a lesson to all, use the points while you can.
Let me put it this way, Casino's today throw everybody out when they see a little money movement with the count and most Surv guys today use strictly a running count and act way to fast. I watched an Asian guy one night who was pretty sharp betting two at $25 each I was right there just hanging out on a slow night and he was the only player. Well it was a +4/5 running wasn't paying much attention so it could have been a good true count or a great opportunity,
like I said I never sweated the money and I have people that watch. My position you make passes check some slips ask a question or two to the supervisors and move on that's what the supervisors are there for but all of a sudden he opens up two hands at $400 each I let the hands play he won both and I backed him off. But I can't take the money back. The minute he seen walking towards him he smile and knew. If he would have opened two hands at $75 or even $100 I let him play you still have to get the cards and when your moving money like that I let you play.
Today you press a bet they back you off. My reasoning for backing him off was that he was a Pig, Refusals that move money and Pigs I'll back you off but I'll always treat an AP with respect I extend my hand and introduce myself and tell him in a civil tone you BJ isn't welcome here but please feel free to play any other game. When they ask why it's just a management decision I always said when I died I'm coming back as a casino owner for CC's only. I think in my career I've met a handful of Blackjack players that I knew I could never beat and they weren't pigs so they got to play. As far as Whales go if your B/R permits them to bet say 3 hands @20k and off the top thier betting 3 hands @10k where they going. There host is giving them everything anyway.
Everybody knows the running count but the real AP orders a beer doesn't bet insurance on a true + counts and above all can talk look around and still focus and beat your brains in. I've met very few.
But that's just a story it doesn't make my point if I determine that a player is to be Flat Bet or backed off and sometimes I had to because another big property did so you pretty much have to follow suit because even if you feel he's not there if he gets really lucky and wins large your gone so to protect yourself you have to. I can't tell you how many times I felt embarrassed to do this to a player. I won't name a name but he's a very famous Poker Poker who's Flat Bet at all MGM property's and he's a 9 million dollar lifetime loser in BJ and because he was flat bet by the biggest JO CM in this town I have to follow suit. I fought for his play by my VP told me it's a no win deal just follow suit and I did.
Ok Finally my point if a guy gets in on legally like a Blackjack Advantage Player and wins say 50k he won the money you can't take it back. If UM chased steam or whatever and they took his bets and put him into a loyalty program and gave him points for cash it's wrong not paying him. Pay him and tell him he's no longer allowed in the loyalty program. Very simple. The problem is where there located they could do that to anyone and lock up your money for any reason. The whole fucking gambling world is afraid of there own shadows. People who don't live or work here think it's the greatest place in the world. They get ripped off on every turn.It's a fun place but to gamble FORGETABOUTIT.
They make the rules have the edge but if you win they get pissed. There are a few exceptions. very few. The shows and restaurants would died if it wasn't for the table game players because if they could get rid of all table games they would. Why do you think you see all these carney games with holds threw the roof. They hate blackjack AND craps players
An SBR complaint will get back what he's earned
The BM Loyalty Program is designed for recreational players. Fine print or no print there is no GCB in San Jose, CR. You're dealing with the biggest pioneer offshore with an unblemished payout record. They've survived DOJ assaults, welcome winners, and only on occasion will cut limits to reasonable amounts.
The $750 payout won't surface and shouldn't.
Just for the record I was a Pit manager from 94-98 When I ran the dice pit and High limit pit at the GN. In 98 I became JM'S assistant shift Manager then in Jan RA took me to Treasure Island as a Shift Manager and when Ruffin bought T.I. in 09 I went to the Mirage as a Shift Manager until I recently retired on March 7th of this year. It's just not right. I know I'm comparing apples to Oranges because of Location but if a Dealer is paying a player 2/1 for Blackjack and after a while or so we discover the mistake I have one of my managers speak to the dealer but I don't ask the player for the money back. Policy say's BJ pays 3/2 but it's our mistake for letting go on. Now if you catch it right away that's another story I'm not familar with there loyalty program but I'm sure he didn't build that $750 up in one day. It will be interesting to see if they give him the Money.
Thank You for the kind words I learned from the best and learned well.
Old-Timer,
If the AP is polite with his bet spread, why wouldn't you still back him off if you knew you could never beat him?
OT, whatever happened to you're buddy Johnny? The supervisor from NY? I think I saw him at the TI when you were there??
If you throw people that go from say $100 to $300 and don't get piggy you won't have any players left. Everybody knows and does a running count a 5th grade student can learn how to cancel cards and learn a running count in an hour and keep a perfect running count. You still have to get the cards. Now if you go from $100 to say $600 and open up another spot you still need to get lucky but your tougher to beat because if you win your going back to $100 hand. But you can't cookie cut it the questions you have to ask are who's the player what's his lifetime does he shoot dice does he play roulette there's some many things to take into consideration. We have players that are lifetime winners in BJ but can't stay away from the crap table and there profitable should we throw them out.
There's so much to know and take into consideration before you ask someone not to play BJ. I did previous days reports for many years and believe me there's not that many lifetime winners. Some of course aren't where there suppose to to be (The Theo Number) and by taking into account the comps they become unprofitable. But you can't just throw them out. Running counts are BS you start getting into true counts and High Opt 2 counts now your talking about guys that over long term they're very hard to beat and it would be best to not have them. Also you have to be aware of the back counter who watches and waits for the right spot to call in his partner. But the experience in this town is dying and it's easier just to tell them you can't play BJ or throw you out and blame in on the economy. I not bad at BJ but the funny thing was one day at at a local joint and I don shuffle chips or do anything like that to draw attention to myself but I get a good cut and it's a good BJ game
( BTW that's the first thing you should look at before playing watch the dealer shuffle and it stays stay's consistent and is a fair cut) I get a deck with a few hands left and it's a +3 true so I go from $50 a hand to two spots at $200 I take a shot the next thing I hear is the dealer say Insurance. Funny shit. Point you still need to get lucky can't throw everybody out. That's why the Casino's need those 6/5 single deck games that hold 22/23% If I told you what the DD and Shoes hold in the High Limit Pit and not just T.I and the Mirage but Bellagio ,MGM most any casino in this town you wouldn't believe it. Why do you think a lot of places are going to hit soft 17 on high limit games.
That's why Bacc ruleS. The player today isn't the player 20 years ago where they sat and played and drank until they went broke
Yea I brought him to T.I and his wife for the past 10 years was breaking his ball to go back to her family in Long Island. He's gone about 7/8 years and regrets everyday about the move and the funny thing is so is his wife. They're trying to come but it's tough to sell his house right now he always like Big House's and he'll have to take a Big Hit. I talk to him maybe twice a month. Trying to get out here for a week to stay with me just to get away from the winter and that BS up there. He got lucky lost power for about 10 days.
$750 isn't chump change for me so I would like a positive outcome...
Good Luck to you, Hope they do the right thing.
Maybe I'm not understanding these statements, but they seem way off base to me. You make it sound like everybody can and does count cards. Sure, a simple counting system like Hi-Lo can be learned by most anybody, but being able to execute it at game speed is a different story. If you aren't relatively good with numbers, you have virtually no chance of keeping a count for more than a hand or two. I actually taught my nephew (who is very good with numbers) Hi-Lo a few years back (ironically a 5th grader at the time) and he picked it up very well. But he would have had no chance of keeping an accurate count at game speed in a casino with all of its distractions. One of my friends asked me what percentage of blackjack players I thought counted cards. From what I have witnessed, I guessed less than 1% (the number that can would be higher, but many that can either haven't learned and practiced it or they have chosen not to because it takes effort). It sounds like you are saying the number is more like 99%. Maybe you are talking about the high stakes tables (i.e. $100 minimums). I have no data to work with there because I have only witnessed players at $25 and lower tables.
As for the statement "you still have to get the cards", that makes no sense at all. If a player has an advantage, they will win over the long run with that advantage. I understand that you can't throw everybody out, but hoping that the AP doesn't get the cards seems like a badly flawed strategy.
The way you slow the game down is canceling as the card s are coming out your canceling First Hand K/6 you don't waste time with that. you don't watch the first and say K -1 then the 6 comes and you even k/6 cancel next hand. It will speed your counting up and have time to look at the remaining cards that are left and get a true count.I do reports everyday day and in that report one of the things I do is list Lifetime winners for the company. Believe me there aren't many. When I worked a floor I could run two game sat once and never could make a dime in Blackjack Tell me what's the biggest edge the house has over the player that's playing Blackjack? That will explain why you still have to get lucky with a simple running count. You tell a true AP player that you use a running count and that's it he'll be polite smile and walk away.
Do you really think I would have worked all these years if a simple running count was the nuts.
Spiderman go try and make a living using a simple running count. They didn't pay me low 6 figures because I cost them money.
Most people don't recognize when it's turning good and they don't have the balls to take advantage then before you know it the run is over or if they do recognize it they don't recognize when it's over and then they give it all back. Remind me to tell you the story of a young kid who came in with $600 and two hours later was winning 220k on a 3 hand max bet 5k and one hour later was broke. We talked and I tell you what he said to me that made it almost unbelievable to me that he went broke.
had about $400 worth of points taken away
is it worth filing a complaint or does the book frown upon you for doing so
I would just ask in chat for the points you have earned before taken away to be given to you. If they say they cant ask to talk to a manager and ask the same thing. They give you the points you earned up until that point from what I've seen. They aren't looking to screw you over at that moment, just no longer going to give you free money to also beat them betting.