Who came up with the idea

IHMWF

of pitchers throwing in the dirt to get batters out. It amazes me how professional hitters are fooled by this.

On another note did Babe Ruth ever seen a pitch over 70mph , a cutter, a breaking ball, a relief pitcher, or a slider. He would hit about .230 against a high school pitcher today.

BetATL

Not sure if you've ever played baseball before but if you see a 90+ MPH fastball and then see a 12-6 75 MPH curve ball I think it's understandable to see how even a professional could be fooled.

Would like to see how Babe Ruth would fair in today's game though...

rodrino

As a baseball player in only high school I can say that against a good pitcher, it is so difficult to go from swinging at an 85 MPH fastball to swinging at a 60-70 MPH curve or slider or any othe pitch that has significant movement. I can only imagine how tough it is as a professional.

homerplayer

IHMWF wrote:

On another note did Babe Ruth ever seen a pitch over 70mph , a cutter, a breaking ball, a relief pitcher, or a slider. He would hit about .230 against a high school pitcher today.

so your contention is that no MLB pitcher had any arm strength whatsoever unitl 1980 or so?

perhaps another question to consider would be the performance of today's players in a dead ball era without PEDs...

kass101

the babe drank beer and ate hotdogs while facing pitchers who threw just as hard while on top of a larger mount and still put up better numbers than anyone today. oh and he would have 20 wins. its hard as shit to hit a baseball and the babe did it without any of the helpers that todays players have.

underal

i remember reading an article called "selctivity the key to hitting" by ted williams in bill james book "baseball abstract". I never saw williams hit but i remember watching keith hernandez work pitchers to deep counts by not swinging at balls and fouling off tough strikes.it does seem to me that there are not that many hitters into today's game who do that. this may have been the point of the original poster but he got sidetracked by dispariging the babe

KeyElement

IHMWF wrote:

of pitchers throwing in the dirt to get batters out. It amazes me how professional hitters are fooled by this.

On another note did Babe Ruth ever seen a pitch over 70mph , a cutter, a breaking ball, a relief pitcher, or a slider. He would hit about .230 against a high school pitcher today.

I am not able to grade such things since I have not read every post ever made here but I would venture a guess that this one is in the top ten of total ignorance. Bob Feller was throwing 100 miles an hour in the 1940's and was not considered a freak by any means. The mound was 4 inches higher (thanks to Bob Gibson) and pitchers were allowed to throw inside, even at the head. With the showmanship of Reggie Jackson and MLB's deciding to placate ignorant gorillas like yourself with lots of offensive firepower, the hitters became highly protected, 10 lbs. of body armour, helmets and a "don't throw anywhere near them" attitude. If some of your current heroes had pulled a home run trot on Gibson, Ford, Koufax, Drysdale, Ryan, Seaver or any one of a thousand other pitchers, you could have scheduled their funerals for a couple days hence. Hitters in Ruth's era couldn't even go to the next town and get away with it as the next opponent would hear about it and retaliate immediately. Very few people have ever had the impact on any sport that Ruth did on baseball, so go get some real information and education on the subject.

underal

well said key. aside from the boost bonds got from the steroids there was also the point that he got away with crowding the plate in a way that players in the old days never could have. as you said a guy like bob gibson would have put an end to it in one at bat

KeyElement

The story is told of a rookie that dug in on Gibson and when Gibson came up to bat he told the opposing teams catcher "you tell that rook, if he ever digs in like that against me again, just go ahead and dig the hole six feet deep and we'll bury him in it." The catcher replied "OK, Bob" and the ump had to hold up the game a couiple seconds to avoid cracking up with laughter. No reprimand or warning from the ump to Gibson, that's just the way the game was played, as in Ruth's era.

HowardBeal

a better argument would have been if the babe had to face starters for only 6 innings, specialized setup men, and closers, and of course......blacks and latinos......

KeyElement

All is normal at BT, Howard has returned to being Howard. While you are it reduce the number of teams to 16 so the talent is not so diluted, pay the old timers enough to condition and train and live like kings all year so they don't have to get a job from October to March. The whole point is, the greats of prior eras were no less great because they didn't play in your particular era. They played against the very best available at the time. Disparaging comments remain ignorant and ill informed. Given Ruth's pure talent, born in the 1980's and raised with today's far healthier life styles (not in an orphanage) and advantages, do you think he couldn't play the game, and still be among he very best? And it is really nice the players got nailed on the juice, just so we know, but what about the ball? In the mid 90's the ball was juiced and still is (nice of the players to distract us). Rookies coming up now are shocked at the flight of the ball. They hope they hit one in the gap and when it sails over the fence their reaction is "Holy Shit" for the first few weeks until they get used to it. In prior eras a hitter occasinally "hit the cover off the ball", iterally, not figuratively. The ball was softer and absorbed more impact, thereby tearing the stitching and the cover came off in flight. No more baby, that sucker is hard, and it flies like a migrating bird. Plenty of advantages to hitters today so stop denigrating players of another era.

HowardBeal

KeyElement wrote:

. They played against the very best available at the time. .

I would only disagree with this part of your discussion, as we all know that wasnt true.....as it seems we will not reach an understanding on this issue, I have stated my case, and I respect your opinion and disagree with it......that will be all from me......have a blessed day.....

vegasconnxn

the amount of guys babe ruth faced in a season who threw in the mid to high 90s could be counted on one hand. there were as many in the entire league then as there are now on one team roster. the types of pitches known and thrown by pitchers in that day were easily less than today. "cutter" was only a word used to describe a carving device. catchers never used to set up on the corners of the plate like they do today. managers never used to bring in the lefty just to face the lefty who hits .130 off lefties. the only thing i will give the players of yesteryear is that they loved playing the game more. the talent, athleticism, and knowledge of the game cannot be compared. and lets not even attempt to breakdown the difference in professional basketball.

IHMWF

Well said Howard. The Babe competed against an non minority era. It is safe to assume that era was not very athletic ( But of course HIGHLY INTELLIGENT). Simply put The Babe was the best non minority of his era ---NOTHING more or LESS. How else can you explain one guy pitching and hitting at that high of a level? It wasn't because he was a GREAT but simply the best NON MINORITY of his era(again)!!!
A decent analogy would be Jethro Bodine of the Beverly Hillbillies. You no that kid who has a mustahe/ beard in the 5th grade. The Babe was the Jethro of his time. He was bigger and stronger than his non minority competitors. The Babe was truly a Gorilla playing against SNAKES.

homerplayer

can't wait until you present the evidence on white pitchers being bet on more than black pitchers

can't believe Huey took the bait on this one....