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  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    Jafar wrote: »
    I like to mess around with options every now and again. After reading your thoughts and the rather lengthy articles and comments about this on SeekingAlpha, I'm almost ready to pull the trigger but had a few questions. As I type this, I see the stock is up almost 10% which I take as confirmation things look good as this April 15 date approaches.

    You compared this to DNDN. I took a look at that chart and saw the huge jump in price. The market cap was smaller and if we were to see a jump like that here, we would be talking about a valuation more than a 1/3 of Merck. Is that realistic? The market seems to think it's possible it more than doubles because it's not like these option contracts are for pennies.

    I was thinking about buying the August 12.00 call at 1.15. I don't see much point in paying similar prices for the May calls because if this thing is going to run up, I want as much time as possible for it to. I also don't see much point in jumping into that right now. Maybe late March. I do like the pedigree of this CEO and how much he is invested in it's success. But he's also 87 and has no need for the money at this point so maybe it's his last hail mary and he's treating it as such.

    The stock is either worthless or it's worth a ton. I'm willing to gamble but I'm trying to time it right and get a realistic valuation of this stock should everything go well 4/15 and if there really is a huge market for this drug like everyone says. If it were to run up before I jump in come late March, I will just buy cheaper options that are farther out of the money. Hell, I'd love it if I could get them cheaper than a dollar. If it's a $50+ stock I want as many contracts as possible. Who knows, maybe come summer I turned 10k into a half million. Let's gamble!

    You bring up quite a few areas so to summarize here are a few thoughts: The relative difference in the market potential between MNKD and DNDN would be like comparing the betting market as far as volume between the NFL & NHL IMO. Diabetes is growing at such a rapid rate worldwide especially in Asia (China & India) as their diets get "more westernized" so to speak compared to prostrate cancer and the costs on a relative basis to treat each and how the insurance end of it comes into play make a huge difference as well. I brought up the DNDN example more to illustrate the similarity in the potential short squeeze action that could take place with MNKD that did with DNDN. As far as the options, one thing you may want to take a look at if you are looking for high leverage would be to sell puts to purchase the calls and if you do it close to the underlying price you'll basically create what is a synthetic where it is like owning the stock in a much more leveraged fashion...for example if the underlying is trading at six and you sold the Aug 6 puts say @ 2.45 (currently that sits between the bid and ask) and used that premium to purchase the Aug 6 calls @ 2.35 (currently sitting between the bid and ask) you could actually net the difference (less commissions) and have a position similar to owning the stock through Aug. expiration. Should the stock be above the strike at expiration you will net the difference of the actual underlying and the 6, however, if it is under the strike at expiration you will be put the stock at the price at the time of expiration (ex. if trading at $1.00 you would be underwater $5 as you would still have to purchase at 6) that is the risk and reward scenario just like you had purchased it at 6 but instead of "posting up" the actual funds you would would have to be approved in your account to be able to trade options on that level and most likely have an approved margin acct. or enough liquidity behind it to make the purchase if necessary. There are many other strategies as well with spreads etc. but for the most part that should give you a little food for thought. As far as the valuation potential, if approved, this would be the first in its class product (ultra rapid acting insulin) and a potentially game changing blockbuster drug. They currently have 550 patents approved and another 470 in cue giving them the exclusivity out until the year 2030 or so. Hope that helps somewhat, GL going forward.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    TheReb wrote: »
    Cools, first and foremost, just like a bet in sports don't put anything into this that you can afford to lose 100% of initial investment. Having said that, they are all in the biotech arena as you know and each one of the four is in a separate area. ONVO is 3D technology on live cell printing AGEN is primarily into enhancing cancer therapy among other things like malaria...NBS is into stem cell technology...MNKD is waiting on FDA approval for its break through treatment for Diabetes and at the same time its delivery system for it...the last item could be worth quite a bit as it is an inhaler technology which in the future can be used for other medications. Of the four, I am most heavily risked in MNKD currently and believe this will have the most immediate (within 90 days) potential to reach up to a 100% gain. The biggest threat to them is political IMO and from what their results have been (stellar IMO) cannot see how the FDA would be able to not give the green light this go around. Keep in mind again, as in sports, a bad beat is always possible but this one has the most immediate potential as far as where I've put my money. GLTY going forward.

    Just an FYI for those that may have taken a position in AGEN, the break out the last two days has been impressive on decent volume. There was an article that came out on how they stole the antibody company for 10mill when a similar company was just picked up for potentially 150 times that amount, that is what the catalyst was for this move. In full disclosure, I have a relatively (to my other positions) small position that is long AGEN. Not sure if you picked up any Cools or OT, hope so ;-)
  • CoolsCools Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    TheReb wrote: »
    Just an FYI for those that may have taken a position in AGEN, the break out the last two days has been impressive on decent volume. There was an article that came out on how they stole the antibody company for 10mill when a similar company was just picked up for potentially 150 times that amount, that is what the catalyst was for this move. In full disclosure, I have a relatively (to my other positions) small position that is long AGEN. Not sure if you picked up any Cools or OT, hope so ;-)

    I did Reb, good to see AGEN on the up and up. Now if we could only get NBS to cooperate ;)

    I'm contemplating buying some more MNKD shares. As you know, it's moved up in the last few days. Would you suggest buying now or waiting for the storm to calm a bit. Obviously I know I need to do it before April rolls around.

    Thanks again for all your help and insight Reb.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    Cools wrote: »
    I did Reb, good to see AGEN on the up and up. Now if we could only get NBS to cooperate ;)

    I'm contemplating buying some more MNKD shares. As you know, it's moved up in the last few days. Would you suggest buying now or waiting for the storm to calm a bit. Obviously I know I need to do it before April rolls around.

    Thanks again for all your help and insight Reb.

    Cools,

    Today is options expiration and there is a huge open interest at the 6 strike price so that will pretty much pin the number close to there IMO for much of the day. Moving forward the chart looks very constructive so if you're in for the ride longer term, then this probably as good an entry as any at this point. It has retaken the 200 day mov. avg this week (currently @ 5.91) and has held and consolidated the move up well. You can wait a day or two to see if it builds on the momentum from the last climb up and continues to march past the 200d, I believe it most likely will but can retest the area on pullbacks so if you want you can put in a limit order around 5.92 if you are watching the pennies...otherwise I would pick it up anywhere from 5.95-6.00 for the longer term as opposed to just a trade. GL
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    No didn't pick up any AGEN sitting comfortably with MNKD and NBS. Also have THLD. Buying on dips after it hits the $5.00 mark and gets knocked back down. Looking for this to bust out soon, hopefully anyway. Every time I look at STML I think what a great in and out stock this has been the past month and even before that. Thanks for the information.

    Wanted to add I see posts from the 19th and 20th I could get on for 2 days thought the site was having problems I guess it was me.
  • BetThemDogsBetThemDogs Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    TheReb wrote: »
    Just an FYI, my sister was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's (non genetic) recently, I try and visit here once every couple of weeks...if there is anything new in development that your wife knows about my sister would be willing to volunteer for clinical trials....ironically her daughter (my niece) has juvenile type 1 diabetes and is what really got me into what Al Mann is doing with MNKD, she wears the minimed pump that he originally developed and sold to Medtronic...he also just won his patent lawsuit for the cochlear ear implant technology this past week...he is an amazing individual. GL going forward, hopefully we can have a decent celebration one of these days ;-)

    You're probably already aware of this, but there's an article in the Jan/Feb issue of Nutrition Action Healthletter which says they had a good results using insulin delivered via a nasal spray for people with mild cognitive impairment, or mild to moderate Alzheimer's. New trial coming which will last 18 months. (compared to 4 months on earlier trials.) Conducted by Suzanne Craft at Wake Forest School of Medicine.
  • CoolsCools Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    TheReb wrote: »
    Today is options expiration and there is a huge open interest at the 6 strike price so that will pretty much pin the number close to there IMO for much of the day. Moving forward the chart looks very constructive so if you're in for the ride longer term, then this probably as good an entry as any at this point. It has retaken the 200 day mov. avg this week (currently @ 5.91) and has held and consolidated the move up well. You can wait a day or two to see if it builds on the momentum from the last climb up and continues to march past the 200d, I believe it most likely will but can retest the area on pullbacks so if you want you can put in a limit order around 5.92 if you are watching the pennies...otherwise I would pick it up anywhere from 5.95-6.00 for the longer term as opposed to just a trade. GL

    Well, I put in the 5.92 limit order on Friday and it obviously expired today. What are your thoughts about taking a bigger position now that it's jumped to 6.40 (which obviously we're all thrilled about)? Should I wait to see if it comes down a bit or get some before it gets too high? Thanks.

    AGEN keeps escalating! Thanks again for getting us on that.
  • yung_keeksyung_keeks Junior Member
    edited February 2014
    Not a stock market expert by any means but what do you guys think about shorting CANV?
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    yung_keeks wrote: »
    Not a stock market expert by any means but what do you guys think about shorting CANV?

    There is no way to short this, I highly doubt that any broker would let you borrow this stock. No options on canv!
  • yung_keeksyung_keeks Junior Member
    edited February 2014
    Gotcha. Shows how much I know about the market ha... Gotta thank Reb for getting us in on MNKD early.
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    eug44 wrote: »
    There is no way to short this, I highly doubt that any broker would let you borrow this stock. No options on canv!

    Eug44 I think you missed my question in the Jeter thread that started about 2 weeks ago.
    My Question to you was did you work at the old China Club on 5th ave?
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    underwraps wrote: »
    Eug44 I think you missed my question in the Jeter thread that started about 2 weeks ago.
    My Question to you was did you work at the old China Club on 5th ave?

    Sorry I did miss it...I worked for a promo company that worked 5 or 6 major spots. China club Monday nights was one of then this is back in 2004 I think. Jeter was one of the regulars there. Barkley was a regular too, now he is a douche, never got a table always drank bud lights at the bar always a dick to the guys.
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    yung_keeks wrote: »
    Not a stock market expert by any means but what do you guys think about shorting CANV?
    Never short a parabolic run especially on a low volume low float stock. If options where available that would be the safest way to go because you can only lose what you put in.
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    eug44 wrote: »
    Sorry I did miss it...I worked for a promo company that worked 5 or 6 major spots. China club Monday nights was one of then this is back in 2004 I think. Jeter was one of the regulars there. Barkley was a regular too, now he is a douche, never got a table always drank bud lights at the bar always a dick to the guys.

    I think in 04 the China club had moved already to W 47th. I met Jeter at the old China club on 5 th ave on the corner I can't remember what street it was. He had his sister there with him one night, man she looked like a dog. LOL I was buddies with Jimmy who worked the front door, so I never waited on line. Definitely the best club for a Monday night in NY.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    Cools wrote: »
    Well, I put in the 5.92 limit order on Friday and it obviously expired today. What are your thoughts about taking a bigger position now that it's jumped to 6.40 (which obviously we're all thrilled about)? Should I wait to see if it comes down a bit or get some before it gets too high? Thanks.

    AGEN keeps escalating! Thanks again for getting us on that.

    Cools, all I can say is the charts are looking extremely bullish on MNKD at this point...as I stated in the previous post when it comes to something like this and I feel there is tremendous upside I don't really watch the pennies so to speak...ultimately I believe this will be in double digits but keep in mind I am a biased long. My approach to the overall market is with great trepidation but obviously I have been very into the biotech sector. I believe a lot of people underestimate the breakthroughs that are taking place in medicine currently with regards to innovation. So for me it is actually a more defensive play within the overall market while at the same time being aggressive to take advantage of high growth opportunities....which inherently brings risk. All of the stocks I have mentioned are in these areas ie., diabetes, stem cell, cancer immunotherapy, etc. Some will make it big and some will ultimately disappoint is how I approach it but hopefully more are successful than others and far outweigh in benefits than others. Fortunately I have two gifted sons and a wife that are in the medical arena so that helps when I'm doing my due diligence to some extent. I couple that with over 30yrs. of investing and "paying the tuition" so to speak along with some technical analysis to try and make as best an educated guess that I can. So in a long and roundabout answer to your question I still believe it is early in the game for MNKD and here in the mid 6's is still a good entry point to initiate or add to positions. Same goes for AGEN as well as it has broke out from a long basing price range.
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited February 2014
    TheReb wrote: »
    ultimately I believe this will be in double digits but keep in mind I am a biased long.

    August options. Buy the $12 call at 1.32... Question is how high into the double digits. I think this is the only way to trade it.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    Jafar wrote: »
    August options. Buy the $12 call at 1.32... Question is how high into the double digits. I think this is the only way to trade it.

    I'm not trading it, I'm a long term investor in it. It will either reach high double digits + in the long run or be bought out sooner prior IMO. The technology they have (550 patents already issued and another 470 in cue) developed for formulating medications into dry powder form for the ability to be inhaled into the pulmonary system is hard to value aside from the immediate submission to the FDA for the approval of Afrezza. Never a guarantee of anything in the biotech arena but given all I have researched and learned on this one have put quite a bit of eggs in the basket (NOT SOMETHING I WOULD NORMALLY PREACH OR ADVOCATE) so I will either end up in a great situation with something that I can feel good about as it helps others, or it will be a setback that I can live with. Options are definitely a way to get a leveraged position so if that is what you're most comfortable with, then the Aug calls would be a prudent expiry to go with.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    TheReb wrote: »
    I'm not trading it, I'm a long term investor in it. It will either reach high double digits + in the long run or be bought out sooner prior IMO. The technology they have (550 patents already issued and another 470 in cue) developed for formulating medications into dry powder form for the ability to be inhaled into the pulmonary system is hard to value aside from the immediate submission to the FDA for the approval of Afrezza. Never a guarantee of anything in the biotech arena but given all I have researched and learned on this one have put quite a bit of eggs in the basket (NOT SOMETHING I WOULD NORMALLY PREACH OR ADVOCATE) so I will either end up in a great situation with something that I can feel good about as it helps others, or it will be a setback that I can live with. Options are definitely a way to get a leveraged position so if that is what you're most comfortable with, then the Aug calls would be a prudent expiry to go with.

    Should add to the above, as far as the options go, the only issue is if for some reason the FDA has any postponements or delays/inquiries into extending the time frame which is always a possibility of happening....and as far as share price upon an approval and/or partnership with a big pharma it is hard to tell how high and volatile it could get given the huge short interest in the stock. Obviously any rejection from the FDA and it will set the share price back quite a ways.
  • BetThemDogsBetThemDogs Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    You're probably already aware of this, but there's an article in the Jan/Feb issue of Nutrition Action Healthletter which says they had a good results using insulin delivered via a nasal spray for people with mild cognitive impairment, or mild to moderate Alzheimer's. New trial coming which will last 18 months. (compared to 4 months on earlier trials.) Conducted by Suzanne Craft at Wake Forest School of Medicine.

    Hey Reb-- don't know if you saw this post-- was wondering if you knew about this use for inhaled insulin?
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    Hey Reb-- don't know if you saw this post-- was wondering if you knew about this use for inhaled insulin?

    Yes I did BTD, put a thanks so you would know that I saw it ;-) but did not know about that clinical trial so since my son is down at NIH sent him an email inquiring about it. Just an FYI, he is so busy with his lab there sometimes it could take awhile before he gets back with me as believe it or not my potential investment inquiries are not his top priority and he also has to really be careful what he can tell me without violating any of their policies other than just his medical or professional opinion on something. When and if he gets back to me on it I will let you know, otherwise from what I know with the assertion of many labeling alzheimers or early onset dementia as diabetes type 3 it makes complete sense that there would be research with the insulin via a nasal inhaler for possible treatment.
  • BetThemDogsBetThemDogs Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    Thanks-- I didn't see the "Thanks".
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    underwraps wrote: »
    I think in 04 the China club had moved already to W 47th. I met Jeter at the old China club on 5 th ave on the corner I can't remember what street it was. He had his sister there with him one night, man she looked like a dog. LOL I was buddies with Jimmy who worked the front door, so I never waited on line. Definitely the best club for a Monday night in NY.

    I only "worked" when it was on 47th and yes Jeter was with his sister A LOT and yes she was a complete dog. StevieY's story is pretty crazy about him def not the experience I had with him. you know once the girls realized what kinda of prime A meat he was with, it was like a competition to fuck him. Jimmy from Staten Island? wraps you in the finance world? guys sorry for taking this thread off topic. Here is a stock I recently bought CVI, it's 80% owned by Carl Icahn, pays 8% dividend and he doesn't fail at anything. this company was trading 2-3 years ago between $3-5, it paid out $13 in dividend last year and traded I believe as high as $60, pretty absurd situation. they dipped a bit because of bad earnings but seem to be back on track, there is always a chance for special div with Mr. Icahn involved.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    eug44 wrote: »
    I only "worked" when it was on 47th and yes Jeter was with his sister A LOT and yes she was a complete dog. StevieY's story is pretty crazy about him def not the experience I had with him. you know once the girls realized what kinda of prime A meat he was with, it was like a competition to fuck him. Jimmy from Staten Island? wraps you in the finance world? guys sorry for taking this thread off topic. Here is a stock I recently bought CVI, it's 80% owned by Carl Icahn, pays 8% dividend and he doesn't fail at anything. this company was trading 2-3 years ago between $3-5, it paid out $13 in dividend last year and traded I believe as high as $60, pretty absurd situation. they dipped a bit because of bad earnings but seem to be back on track, there is always a chance for special div with Mr. Icahn involved.

    The dividend looks safe from what I can see with their earnings and cash from the income and balance statements, nice income stream from dividend. Like the fact that their business is split between the energy and fertilizer components. Nice one Eug
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    eug44 wrote: »
    I only "worked" when it was on 47th and yes Jeter was with his sister A LOT and yes she was a complete dog. StevieY's story is pretty crazy about him def not the experience I had with him. you know once the girls realized what kinda of prime A meat he was with, it was like a competition to fuck him. Jimmy from Staten Island? wraps you in the finance world? guys sorry for taking this thread off topic. Here is a stock I recently bought CVI, it's 80% owned by Carl Icahn, pays 8% dividend and he doesn't fail at anything. this company was trading 2-3 years ago between $3-5, it paid out $13 in dividend last year and traded I believe as high as $60, pretty absurd situation. they dipped a bit because of bad earnings but seem to be back on track, there is always a chance for special div with Mr. Icahn involved.

    Yeah Jimmy V from Staten Island short guy and a black belt in some form of martial arts. I haven't seen him in a while. I had a beef with Kenny Anderson Nets player one night in the old china club and Jimmy grabbed him by the throat and threw him out.

    I got into trading the markets in 97 and done really good on the last bear market 06 to 09 thanks to my Uncle who is really good friends with Joey Borsalino aka Big Joe #1 in the Chicago SnP Pit.
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    TheReb wrote: »
    The dividend looks safe from what I can see with their earnings and cash from the income and balance statements, nice income stream from dividend. Like the fact that their business is split between the energy and fertilizer components. Nice one Eug

    Reb, I just cant believe how much $$$ this company made people in the last 2 years, a 1k share lot at $4 netted you 50-60k and it's not like they just turned profitable were just super undervalued and Icahn beat them into shape. if you are interested I also bought wisdomtree and aig (take a look at how much money they make now)
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    underwraps wrote: »
    Yeah Jimmy V from Staten Island short guy and a black belt in some form of martial arts. I haven't seen him in a while. I had a beef with Kenny Anderson Nets player one night in the old china club and Jimmy grabbed him by the throat and threw him out.

    I got into trading the markets in 97 and done really good on the last bear market 06 to 09 thanks to my Uncle who is really good friends with Joey Borsalino aka Big Joe #1 in the Chicago SnP Pit.

    small world, I knew jimmy, super nice guy - I heard about the Kenny Anderson situation, that guy was out more nights a week then any crack hoe. it was actually a really big deal because the club catered strictly to that clientele, great wall of pictures they had if u remember. funny thing is I can't go out any more, was out last Friday night got home at 1-130 I recovered on tuesday
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited February 2014
    eug44 wrote: »
    small world, I knew jimmy, super nice guy - I heard about the Kenny Anderson situation, that guy was out more nights a week then any crack hoe. it was actually a really big deal because the club catered strictly to that clientele, great wall of pictures they had if u remember. funny thing is I can't go out any more, was out last Friday night got home at 1-130 I recovered on tuesday

    Sure is a small world. Yes I remember those pics and the way they where all aligned so perfectly on those walls.
    I hear ya on the hangovers they sure do last longer now. I don't go out to often either anymore because of it.
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    I think you guys make like the link below, very appropriate for every type of investor

    "Games are won by players who focus on the playing field -- not by those whose eyes are glued to the scoreboard."

    http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/02/24/warren-buffett-berkshire-letter/
  • BarneyMillerBarneyMiller Member
    edited March 2014
    No offense to anybody, but I still remember a guy who runs AAA Handicapping pushing a stock several years ago on many forums called CMKM Diamonds that was a complete scam. It stole 100's of millions from people. This shill kept talking about new discoveries and great things just around the corner.
    I couldn't believe the number of people spending tens of thousands of dollars buying worthless paper.

    I have my series 7 license. I have sold penny stocks before. While there are some legit ones, so many of them are shells of companies.

    As some posters have said, do your due diligence. However, unfortunately, all the information you may research just may not be the truth. Companies' financial records can be very difficult to evaluate, even assuming they are correct.
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Canadian mining companies where always the biggest scams
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