Betting Talk

So how with the HOF screw up today?

BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
edited January 2014 in Sports Betting
Lots of great names today.
Maddux will he get 100% vote? He should but won't, because of some ignorant writer.
Glavine should get in, I have a hunch they keep him out.
Frank Thomas incredible numbers should also go in, I don't think they vote him in the first time.
Biggio , how the hell does he not got in ? They voted Ryan Sandberg in, who would you rather have as a 2nd baseman ?

I have lost all faith in the HOF when my favorite player Ricky Henderson was not on every writers ballot.

Interested to see how bad this gets screwed up today.

Also interesting to see if Bonds gets more votes then last year or not, hope Clemens never gets in.
«1

Comments

  • procapprocap Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are complete locks, IMO. If any of those three are left out my brain might explode.
  • Dr. HDr. H Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    procap wrote: »
    Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are complete locks, IMO. If any of those three are left out my brain might explode.

    Absolutely agree.
  • MustangMustang Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    I agree with those three - as an Astros fan - Biggio should get in (should have been last year) and it would be nice if Bagwell got in with him - although I highly doubt it given the new people on the ballot. Bagwell's numbers though are pretty comparable to Thomas and he was a much better defensive player.
  • groovinmahoovingroovinmahoovin Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Those three are certainly in. Biggio is so close to 50% that I had a lot of trouble setting hypothetical odds but settled on yes +120/no -150, so could easily go either way. Piazza has some chance but I'd guess he isn't elected. Morris I think will get around 67-68% and fall short. I'll be pretty shocked if anyone else got elected.

    My main wish is that Walker doesn't fall off the ballot, which could be close. I don't know if I'd vote for him or not (I lean yes), but he's definitely close enough that he deserves a few more years of consideration rather than falling off now. I thought it was pretty disgraceful Lofton fell off so quickly last year, and same with Lou Whitaker when it happened to him.
  • StackAttackStackAttack Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Some writer already admitted he didnt vote for Maddux, because he left off EVERYONE who played during the steroid era. He said he only voted for Morris.

    I think a very interesting barometer to see what the future holds is how many more votes Bonds and Clemens receive, or do they stay the same.

    The large number of guys on the ballot, i think its 35 or 36, is also really interesting. Will it cause guys who deserve to at least stay on the ballot get knocked off?
  • StevieYStevieY Senior Handicapper
    edited January 2014
    Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas should be easy. I was a little alarmed at the number of voters who were surprised at how good Thomas numbers were, like they didn't realize how good he was. Please leave your voters card at the door please.

    Maddux won't be 100%, someone already admitted to leaving him off. Some idiot put 1 guy on his vote, Jack Morris. If Maddux can't be the 100%'er, we will have to wait until Mike Trout(at his current pace and as long as he doesn't piss someone off, the old guard should be dead by then). The guy is one of the few to have no enemies and put up eye popping numbers no matter what you look at, in an offensive era.

    The Lou Whitaker vote was a joke. Does anyone alive back then think there was that much difference, if any, between Whitaker and Sandberg? One gets in, one doesn't come close. Whether you believe he should be in or not is one thing(I do), but to fall off the ballot for lack of votes is a joke.

    I rode the Ron Santo wagon until he got in, now I am on Edgar Martinez's wagon. I don't care if all he did was hit, he did it as well or better than everyone in his era. He was a hitting freak. He was a good fielder before his injury and could have played in the field as well/better than most of the glorified DH's running around out there after the injury. I know he won't get in until he goes to the Veteran's committee, but he shouldn't have to wait.
  • StackAttackStackAttack Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    I know the answer is going to be NO.

    If you guys had a vote. Would anyone ever vote for McGriff?
  • BeardedTacoBeardedTaco Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    what about tim raines?
  • groovinmahoovingroovinmahoovin Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Some writer already admitted he didnt vote for Maddux, because he left off EVERYONE who played during the steroid era. He said he only voted for Morris.

    That idiot missed the fact that Maddux and Morris's careers overlapped by NINE YEARS. Morris had an 18 year career, fully half of which overlapped with Maddux's career. So why blame an presumably innocent player rather than the powers that be who turned a blind eye to everything? Oh right, because that writer is employed by MLB and Bud Selig signs his paycheck. Disgraceful hypocrisy.
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited January 2014
    Agree on the Sweet Lou - what a 2nd baseman. Don't even get me started on Sandberg. (They never had to wash his jersey - never went after anything he was not 100% sure he could get)

    Larry Walker - In my view never gets in, he played in a PED field (Coors field), might hurt Helton also. The discrepancy between home and away stats for him are far too great, to be taken as a legitimate HOF.

    What about Lee Smith - not in and could go off this year ? More saves then Goose. Crying shame, he was scary good in his prime.
  • munson15munson15 Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    I know the answer is going to be NO.

    If you guys had a vote. Would anyone ever vote for McGriff?
    Not that my opinion means anything, but he's VERY close in my eyes. Wouldn't bother me a bit to see him get in.
  • TexasHookEmTexasHookEm Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Biggio last year: "I'm pretty close... we got a 68, and I'm gonna go back and study a little harder and hopefully get a 75 next year."

    Referring to McGriff as anything but CrimeDog is an injustice.
  • StevieYStevieY Senior Handicapper
    edited January 2014
    If you guys had a vote. Would anyone ever vote for McGriff?

    I love the Crime Dog. He's borderline for me. I wouldn't mind if he got in but I don't think he will. I'd definitely consider voting for him depending on the year and who is on the ballot. My 10 player ballot this year would be:

    Maddux
    Glavine
    Thomas
    Martinez
    Raines
    Biggio
    Bonds
    Bagwell
    Clemens(fucking hate him too but if I don't put him on for that, it makes me a hypocrite)

    #10. Normal year, would flip coins between Morris, Trammell and McGriff. Since it is the last year for Morris, I go with him.
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited January 2014
    StevieY wrote: »
    I love the Crime Dog. He's borderline for me. I wouldn't mind if he got in but I don't think he will. I'd definitely consider voting for him depending on the year and who is on the ballot. My 10 player ballot this year would be:

    Maddux
    Glavine
    Thomas
    Martinez
    Raines
    Biggio
    Bonds
    Bagwell
    Clemens(fucking hate him too but if I don't put him on for that, it makes me a hypocrite)

    #10. Normal year, would flip coins between Morris, Trammell and McGriff. Since it is the last year for Morris, I go with him.

    I like your 10, but I don't take Bagwell. I put in Lee Smith.
    Also very much share your opinion on Martinez, being an A's fan (west coast guy) , I saw him just rake the ball for years. Fun to watch and a prince of a guy, I mean prince. You would think you were having a beer with your buddies, thats how he made you feel.
  • TexasHookEmTexasHookEm Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    I like your 10, but I don't take Bagwell. I put in Lee Smith.

    I'm a homer, but disagree. If you don't like Bagwell because you think he juiced, that's one thing. By numbers, though, he's a career .300 hitter (career .408 OBP!) with 449 HR (37 all time), 1529 RBI (47 all time), 200 SB and an MVP. There are people with much, much worse numbers in the hall.
  • munson15munson15 Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    I've come around on Bagwell. He did it all with one team, quit as soon as he knew he was done, was a great fielder and baserunner, and accumulated his stats over a shorter period of time than many others.
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    74.8% for Biggio. Ouch. And lol at 3% leaving Maddux off
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited January 2014
    2 votes from being in the HOF, come on that is brutal.
  • jets96jets96 Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Maddux, Glavine, Thomas named to Hall

    Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas will be inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame on July 27. Maddux and Glavine, a pair of 300-game winners who pitched the bulk of their careers for the Braves, were the favorites, but the 571 voters outdid themselves by also adding Thomas. It was the first time since 1999, when Robin Yount, Nolan Ryan and George Brett were elected, that the writers put three first-time eligibles into the Hall.
  • StackAttackStackAttack Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    I want to know who voted for Eric Gagne, Armando Benitez, Jacque Jones and Hideo Nomo. Biggio would be in if two of those clowns who voted for these guys instead voted for Biggio.
  • munson15munson15 Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    I want to know who voted for Eric Gagne, Armando Benitez, Jacque Jones and Hideo Nomo. Biggio would be in if two of those clowns who voted for these guys instead voted for Biggio.
    Couldn't those guys have voted for Biggio as well? If not, then I agree, the HOF ballot should not be treated like a joke.
  • StackAttackStackAttack Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Youre right. Those people may have also voted for Biggio. i over simplified it. its just the principal of the thing I guess. A guy who deserves to be in doesnt make it by two votes. and votes went to those other guys. hopefully changes are made, but how many times have we looked for change to the voting?
  • groovinmahoovingroovinmahoovin Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    what about tim raines?

    Raines is my choice for the next Santo/Blyleven stathead cause. He was about as valuable as Gwynn (BR and FG WAR have them about equal, and BP has Raines about 9 runs better), but Gwynn's value was in the traditional making contact/high batting average, whereas Raines's value was in undervalued areas like taking walks and baserunning.
  • groovinmahoovingroovinmahoovin Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Biggio has 13 more years to get elected, so no big deal. There have always been people at the bottom who get a vote or two, and I actually don't have a problem with giving a random guy a vote just so he can say, hey, I got a HOF vote. In this particular year, I wouldnt have done it since the ballot was so crowded, but there were a ton of people who submitted ballots with less than 10 candidates, so I don't find it any "worse" to submit a ballot with 5 votes, vs 5 votes for real candidates and another 5 for Jacque Jones etc.

    The argument in favor of Nomo that some people advanced was that he was the first Japanese player to play regularly (there were a couple guys for the Giants in the 60s but I dont know if they ever played, and if they did they didn't play much), so he deserved consideration for paving the way for all of the other Asian superstars. It's not an argument I would make, but there's at least some logic behind it, and I don't mind the idea of considering people for the HOF who were pioneers in some way.

    If I had a ballot, mine would look a lot like Stevie's, except that I would have found room for Mussina, and I don't like Morris at all. I think Trammell is very deserving, so I probably would have had to do something game theoretical and remove someone in the middle, probably Bonds or Clemens since they had no shot of getting elected and no shot of falling off the ballot.
  • groovinmahoovingroovinmahoovin Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    durito wrote: »
    74.8% for Biggio. Ouch. And lol at 3% leaving Maddux off

    There's a game theoretical argument to be made that with only 10 votes, it makes sense to leave someone off who's going to be elected anyway. I don't know if any of the voters actually did that, but I saw saber-types advocate that approach.
  • groovinmahoovingroovinmahoovin Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Short on time but will comment on some of the other players tomorrow. Walker-I don't know if I would vote for Walker or not, it's close, but there are definitely reasonable arguments to be made in favor of him, so I wouldn't want him to fall off the ballot like Whitaker and Lofton did. Walker's park adjusted numbers are still pretty solid, OPS+ of 141, B-R WAR of 72.6, BP WAR 60.3, FG WAR 69.0. And his career away stats aren't awful, 278/370/495 isn't anything to poo-poo. The lack of much of a peak is a mark against him, right now I would lean towards yes, but when we're talking about things like park adjustments, where we may learn later how to park adjust in a better manner, I would definitely not want him falling off the ballot before his candidacy can be fully considered.
  • Obi OneObi One Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    Hey Groovin,

    Maybe this has been asked already, if so, I missed it, but are you going to post plays once MLB season comes around?
    Or any other sport?

    Anyways, appreciate your insights,
    Greetz,

    Obi
  • SunBelterSunBelter Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    You are supposed to be compared to your piers at your position, and Mike Piazza is the greatest hitting catcher in the history of baseball, and I dont think its even debateable. When you take into account the fact that the guy played his entire 16 yr career in horrible parks for hitter, its even more apparent. He played in Dodger Stadium, Shea, and a year each in SD and Oakland. Imagine what kind of numbers he would have put up had he played even in neutral parks. The only reason he isnt in is because he played in the same era as scumbags like McGwire, Sosa, Palmerio, and Bonds. He will get in within the next 2 years, but it pisses me off hes having to wait.
  • jammerjammer Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    He had a short career and doesn't have the numbers to get in, but Albert Belle dominated for that 10 year stretch between 1991-2000.
    He averaged 37 HOMERS, 120 RBI, 95 RUNS, 38 DOUBLES, and hit . 300. 5 silver sluggers, 5 all stars, and 5 top 10 MVP finishes. not bad.
  • TexasHookEmTexasHookEm Senior Member
    edited January 2014
    jammer wrote: »
    He had a short career and doesn't have the numbers to get in, but Albert Belle dominated for that 10 year stretch between 1991-2000.
    He averaged 37 HOMERS, 120 RBI, 95 RUNS, 38 DOUBLES, and hit . 300. 5 silver sluggers, 5 all stars, and 5 top 10 MVP finishes. not bad.

    Lots of people hear his name and immediately think "guy who corked his bat in the steroid era"
Sign In or Register to comment.