Betting Talk

Looks like a local is going to stiff me

LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
edited February 2013 in Sports Betting
I realize there is likely nothing I can do if he doesn't want to pay me but what would you do?

{TOMMYL edit - Took out details as per Lowkey's request}
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Comments

  • CoopsCoops Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    u should settle frequently with locals dude. Nothing u can really do now but learn from it. Depending on my trust level with the local, i set different trigger levels. For the shakiest, we would settle at 1k, for my safest 10k. Thats the problem with locals, the client has very little recourse other than bad mouthing him.
  • LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    This was two weeks worth of winnings, not figures that had been floating for a long period of time.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    I don't who your dealing with or who you are or what the situation is at all with that said I would call him two times a day and after that I would be sitting on his stoop waiting and asking him to deal either give me 50c on the dollar or pay me off weekly. But I like said things are different these days this guy most likely has a short sheet isn't flush and you hurt him, bad guy to deal with. Also go talk to the guy that made the intro. Now if your in over your head then lesson learned. Did you check him out like he checked you. sometimes people think that Locals are all flush and always pay
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    this is what I would do (and have done, but remember I live in NY and this may not work in the burbs or smaller town), tell him that you've been around a long time and that you really don't want to end up selling this debt to someone (obv it depends how much he owes you). most locals aren't as tough as people think they are and from my experience wont do shit if u press them. do you know a lot of people that bet with him? you can obviously kill his business if others find out you are getting stiffed. your other option is to settle for 50 cents on a dollar and move on...
  • LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not the type to threaten anyone and this is more of a small town environment. I do know a couple of other "recreational" players that bet with him but its pretty small money so maybe he wouldn't care if he loses them or not. I went through the figure he is refusing to pay and about 60% of my winnings aren't even the types of bets he is complaining about.
  • tribecalledjefftribecalledjeff Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Sorry to hear, man. I got stiffed for 15k a couple of months back, it's a kick in the nuts. Like you said, if/when they decide not to pay, you don't have a lot of recourse. I hope that it works out for ya.
  • originalokieoriginalokie Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    tribecalledjeff wrote: »
    Sorry to hear, man. I got stiffed for 15k a couple of months back, it's a kick in the nuts. Like you said, if/when they decide not to pay, you don't have a lot of recourse. I hope that it works out for ya.

    Same situation here

    I lost, I paid; always

    I won fairly big; got stiffed big

    Can I risk jail for bodily harm

    NO

    Forget it; This was five years ago and I still get upset once in a blue moon!!!
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    so sick (sorry guys)...the truth is that if you are a winning player you are going to get stiffed at some point every bookie has a breaking point
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    It's a different world today where I come from back way back you really didn't have that type of problem with the neighborhood. I know BK uses an agent I wouldn't use them either I don't trust them either I had a friend of mine who had a problem with a small amount who he used to meet at the Rock he got paid but had a problem. I don't like that predetermine amount either I liked when Tuesday came you straighten up and if you were a nickle bettor and Monday night game came and you wanted to bet a dime because you were stuck the book would say you got nickel anymore bring the cash and you could have anything you want.

    they avoided trouble in those days both ways because everybody k\new somebody and it was all about the money not the problems.. I can't play large anymore don't trust anything and that sad this way if I get stiff I lose a few k nothing I can do about unless I want to go to CR and get chopped up. I feel for you and anybody who's got stiffed it's hard enough to win and when lose you pay. I still say sit down and talk with with the guy and try to make some kind of arrangements. show him that 60% you were talking about and tell him he should pay that.
  • LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    .....
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited January 2013
    I don't know why you are trying to poke holes in his logic. He decided to stiff you and then worked backwards from there on an excuse when the true reason is this: If he does pay you, he does not see himself getting that money back from you.

    He made a business decision. So now you need to look at your options. Option A is to take it and move on. Option B is to do something about it. If this money isn't worth risking jail over, then I suggest you take Option A. Take it from a guy who has chosen Option B before and just move on.
  • BookbrakerBookbraker Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    eug44 wrote: »
    so sick (sorry guys)...the truth is that if you are a winning player you are going to get stiffed at some point every bookie has a breaking point

    Things are different now no doubt but I never stiffed anyone when I booked. I turned my business over to a friend and he never stiffed anyone either. IMO a bookie is much more unlikely to stiff than a degenerate player.
  • BookbrakerBookbraker Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    If its in PA, NY, NJ and the price is right I would collect for you. I don't think Edward would approve though lol.
  • LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Jafar wrote: »
    I don't know why you are trying to poke holes in his logic. He decided to stiff you and then worked backwards from there on an excuse when the true reason is this: If he does pay you, he does not see himself getting that money back from you.

    He made a business decision. So now you need to look at your options. Option A is to take it and move on. Option B is to do something about it. If this money isn't worth risking jail over, then I suggest you take Option A. Take it from a guy who has chosen Option B before and just move on.

    I'm aware that his logic is exactly what you say it is - backwards. It's just frustrating to hear excuses and have him try to turn the tables and insinuate that I did something wrong and because of that it's fine to stiff me.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Bookbraker wrote: »
    If its in PA, NY, NJ and the price is right I would collect for you. I don't think Edward would approve though lol.

    Wrong message
  • buythehookbuythehook Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Bookbraker wrote: »
    If its in PA, NY, NJ and the price is right I would collect for you. I don't think Edward would approve though lol.

    I maybe needing ur services!!!

    Lol... Hopefully I won't though
  • speculatorspeculator Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    if it were a small town, i woudl tell all his current as well as potential customers that he stiffed u. hang around the bars that he picks up his customers....
  • speculatorspeculator Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    many moons ago, i was stiffed for a big 65 dollars!!!
  • kass101kass101 Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    If its a small town it should be easy to get this guy to pay something. He obviously hangs out certain places I would frequent them and tell everyone what a scum bag loser he is. Nothing pisses me off more than locals who think they can make easy money and dont hold up their end of the bargain.

    I honestly would lose little sleep over having my money stolen by an offshore compared to a local trying to stiff me.

    First of all the guy is an Illegal Bookie, what is he going to do run to the cops if you do something? The guy is scum, please dont think you should consider his feelings or his reputation in any of the actions you take.

    My local trying to stiff myself and my friends occurred in college when all 3 of us went on a big run during baseball season. The guy said he wouldnt pay but of course we see him at the bars flashing all the cash the losers were paying him. Trust me, after seeing that we got our money out of him. The guy acted like he was tough and connected to whatever bullshit mob he tried to claim, guess what it was all lies. If he was actually connected or whatever he would have enough smarts to not stiff anyone.
  • LawboyLawboy Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    You do have some legal options, and illegal options. He has made it clear that he won't settle for a percent of your win, so you can try a couple of things. Legal: contact law enforcement in your area as an anonymous tipster. Give his name and info and his method of collecting bets. If your local police/prosecutor wants to mess with it, he gets a felony conviction or jail time in state or federal prison. Contacting them anonymously will work, and they can get a warrant to search if they can corroborate what you tell them...I.e. he works out of the deli on 35th street and collects money on Tuesdays, etc. if they won't take info anonymously, walk away. There is, however, no criminal liability for the player in an illegal bookmaking enterprise in all 50 states. That gets a little more murky when the Feds get involved. Any transaction can be a violation of the wire act, so I'd contact local law enforcement.

    Less legal; start calling at weird times, day and night. Imply that you may seek someone in the "collection" business, or "waste management." Make him think you are considering an illegal method of collection.

    Not legal. I think we all know this route. I can't advise you to do it, but people do.

    Option one happens all the time when drug dealers get caught. They turn in their competitors to the police in exchange for a lesser sentence.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Lawboy wrote: »
    You do have some legal options, and illegal options. He has made it clear that he won't settle for a percent of your win, so you can try a couple of things. Legal: contact law enforcement in your area as an anonymous tipster. Give his name and info and his method of collecting bets. If your local police/prosecutor wants to mess with it, he gets a felony conviction or jail time in state or federal prison. Contacting them anonymously will work, and they can get a warrant to search if they can corroborate what you tell them...I.e. he works out of the deli on 35th street and collects money on Tuesdays, etc. if they won't take info anonymously, walk away. There is, however, no criminal liability for the player in an illegal bookmaking enterprise in all 50 states. That gets a little more murky when the Feds get involved. Any transaction can be a violation of the wire act, so I'd contact local law enforcement.

    Less legal; start calling at weird times, day and night. Imply that you may seek someone in the "collection" business, or "waste management." Make him think you are considering an illegal method of collection.

    Not legal. I think we all know this route. I can't advise you to do it, but people do.

    Option one happens all the time when drug dealers get caught. They turn in their competitors to the police in exchange for a lesser sentence.

    Option #1 I agree but everyone will know and he already said it's a small town. Without knowing all the particulars that's a tough call to make. He's still has to live there in this small town. I would however break his balls and tell him I want my money and I intend on getting it one way or another.
    But we try to leave the local police out of it if at all possible.
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Trust me --- the second a bookie hears that "you are going to sell his debt" they shit on themselves, i mentioned this before and so did someone else, most of these guys are not some mobsters or even tough guys they are businessmen he realized you are sharp and he wasn't going to get his money back or he went broke. dont aggravate yourself with trying to reason with him or go over bets! i would leave cops outta of it, try to get half of what he owes you.
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited January 2013
    Only real option you have is to tell him, you are going to bad mouth him all around town, so everyone knows he is not reliable. Their reputation is all they have, he wont like hearing that, and may settle with you. Good luck, I am very sorry to hear that, hard enough to win and now to get stiffed, sickening.
  • lumpy19lumpy19 Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Lawboy wrote: »
    You do have some legal options, and illegal options. He has made it clear that he won't settle for a percent of your win, so you can try a couple of things. Legal: contact law enforcement in your area as an anonymous tipster. Give his name and info and his method of collecting bets. If your local police/prosecutor wants to mess with it, he gets a felony conviction or jail time in state or federal prison. Contacting them anonymously will work, and they can get a warrant to search if they can corroborate what you tell them...I.e. he works out of the deli on 35th street and collects money on Tuesdays, etc. if they won't take info anonymously, walk away. There is, however, no criminal liability for the player in an illegal bookmaking enterprise in all 50 states. That gets a little more murky when the Feds get involved. Any transaction can be a violation of the wire act, so I'd contact local law enforcement.

    Less legal; start calling at weird times, day and night. Imply that you may seek someone in the "collection" business, or "waste management." Make him think you are considering an illegal method of collection.

    Not legal. I think we all know this route. I can't advise you to do it, but people do.

    Option one happens all the time when drug dealers get caught. They turn in their competitors to the police in exchange for a lesser sentence.

    Thanks for this post. I'm looking at option 1 right now to try and collect from a "local" that's stiffing.
  • LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    Lots to read through and consider and I really appreciate all the advice. I don't want to have the situation escalate to something I'm not comfortable with. It's not an extremely small town (around 400,000 in the surrounding area) but it feels much smaller and is small enough that this guy knows exactly where to find me if he thinks I'm threatening him and wants to call my bluff. To be clear this isn't something I'm considering at all, I really think it would be a bad idea and a very emotional move that isn't smart. It might be the sharp play for someone else in a different situation but my head is saying I probably just have to let it go. Would it change your decision if you knew this guy had been in trouble with the law before on unrelated but VERY illegal things?
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited January 2013
    Lowkey wrote: »
    Would it change your decision if you knew this guy had been in trouble with the law before on unrelated but VERY illegal things?

    Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but it would have changed my decision to ever work with him in the first place...Based on everything that you've said, sounds like your best bet it to just write it off as a loss at this point.
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    It happens. I just move on.

    But yea if you know other players that use him, tell them to stop. Had a few stiffs after winning the first week, but nothing is worse than someone that collects from you for a while and then stiffs when you win.
  • LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    durito wrote: »
    It happens. I just move on.

    But yea if you know other players that use him, tell them to stop. Had a few stiffs after winning the first week, but nothing is worse than someone that collects from you for a while and then stiffs when you win.

    I paid a few times and he paid a few times. This would have been his second time in a row paying and put me up substantially on him but apparently that isn't how he operates.
  • HavanaHavana Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    I would mention it to whomever recommended this "stiff" to you in the first place. DO NOT ask the recommender to do anything. You are just making a casual comment. You've got "class".
  • LowkeyLowkey Senior Member
    edited January 2013
    If a couple friends who are small but consistent losers owe small money to this guy what advice would you give them? I'm obviously going to tell them to stop betting with him. Is he going to be surprised if these guys walk away from small figures? Whether they say anything to him or not it's going to be pretty obvious that I told them about my situation. He has to expect the LEAST I'm going to do is tell my friends.
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