Betting Talk

Poker Investing Question

BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
edited March 2014 in Sports Betting
So I have a friend she plays a lot of poker tournaments, etc.

She has never played in the WSOP event in Vegas but thinks she is ready to this year.

So if I put up the 10k , what is my cut ?

Is there a set arrangement or does everyone make their own arrangement ?

Just curious, she wants me to offer a percentage but I have no clue what to ask for.

thanks,
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Comments

  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Dunno the going rate. I guess it's all negotiable and in stages. The one advice I can suggest is a written agreement notarized. I've heard too many reneges among these pilars of our society.
  • worm33worm33 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    So I have a friend she plays a lot of poker tournaments, etc.

    She has never played in the WSOP event in Vegas but thinks she is ready to this year.

    So if I put up the 10k , what is my cut ?

    Is there a set arrangement or does everyone make their own arrangement ?

    Just curious, she wants me to offer a percentage but I have no clue what to ask for.

    thanks,

    On a 1 time freeroll with no makeup you would be crazy to give her any more then 10% (and I would assume this would be lighting money on fire as well)
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    I know why your even considering this. Get a picture and put it up I would like to see this girl who has you even thinking about this.
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited March 2014
    Am I really that easy to read OT ?
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    This standard one time deal is you split profits 50/50 after you get the buyin back. Most don't do this any more, players typically sell a percentage of themselves say 10% for 1.3, meaning you are paying 1300 for a 10% stake
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    And yes it would be a super square move on your part (unless the picture says otherwise) I know guys with 3mm in lifetime winnings looking for backing arrangements
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Satellites, back her on a couple of cheap ones even if it doesn't get her to the main game it may get her up in class and then see how she does.
    I say that because you didn't mention what type of tournaments she plays. To many people to many races the skill factor gets less and less when your competing against 1000's. you should take a shot you seem to play well according to your stories and what's most impressive with your last story you learned something and I'm sure you won't make that mistake. I play but my limitations are a 2/5 NL anything higher above my class.
  • procapprocap Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    I know why your even considering this. Get a picture and put it up I would like to see this girl who has you even thinking about this.

    Fucking epic. Good shit, OT.
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited March 2014
    Is it true that Antonio Esfandiari winning 18m in the One Drop tournament actually only netted 300k because he had sold himself off so many times and was dead broke ?
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    Is it true that Antonio Esfandiari winning 18m in the One Drop tournament actually only netted 300k because he had sold himself off so many times and was dead broke ?

    he made a little over 3mm
  • golfer1000golfer1000 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    This is cool. If you do it, keep us posted on how she does. Pic is a great call OT
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    Is it true that Antonio Esfandiari winning 18m in the One Drop tournament actually only netted 300k because he had sold himself off so many times and was dead broke ?

    Don't really know to much about the rumors about who's broke and who's not but I'll tell you one thing a lot of the bigger names play Craps and Baccarat for very Large Money. So if you told me he was broke I would believe it. I don't think Helmute has put a dime for the big one in years at least that's what I'm told from very reliable sources.
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited March 2014
    I'm by no means a poker expert, but one thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that the bankroll needed to play high buy-in tourneys (while keeping risk of ruin at a reasonable level) is pretty large due to the amount of variance. Selling parts of oneself and/or having a backer does not necessarily mean one is anywhere near broke.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Said very well Goats and very true.
  • kass101kass101 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    I know why your even considering this. Get a picture and put it up I would like to see this girl who has you even thinking about this.

    I came to post this and you fucking nailed it. Great job old man.

    But as anyone who took econ 101 will know there are plenty of economic theories that would allow for you to spend that 10k in order to get some.
  • buythehookbuythehook Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    I'm sure okie will see this thread, I backed him for the WSOP last year. He had a good way in which the percentages were structured. If she has not played in a serious tourney, I would try a few smaller tourneys or a satellite first.

    Good luck in what ever you do.
  • golfer1000golfer1000 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    buythehook wrote: »
    I'm sure okie will see this thread, I backed him for the WSOP last year. He had a good way in which the percentages were structured. If she has not played in a serious tourney, I would try a few smaller tourneys or a satellite first.

    Good luck in what ever you do.

    How did okie do?
  • buythehookbuythehook Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    golfer1000 wrote: »
    How did okie do?

    Unfortunately okie had to pull out right before the tourney. We had a signed notarized contract and it was legit. Hopefully he will enter again because I would like to try to back him again this year.
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    There was an interesting "study" done a few years ago at the WSOP, basically there is a 25k fantasy poker draft each year with like 10 or 12 teams that Daniel N runs, each team I believe is comprised on 10-12 players and you get points based on how many cashes someone has, how far they go and if they win a bracelet. So all 125-150 players were tracked presumably the best players in the world. 75-80% lost money during the WSOP, the ROI of the group was something like 10-15% but only because someone hit for multiple millions. If you would have taken that one tournament out they would have had a much lower ROI, I think it was the 50k players championship were the entire final table would have been the guys that are drafted in the league. All of the players combined played something like 1,500 tournaments, this sample size should be big enough to eliminate variance. Regardless, the point is it's almost impossible to make a living playing tournaments, the variance is absurd, the VIG an absolute killer and when you factor in travel expenses plus taxes on winnings it becomes pointless. Not sure why I went on this rant, considering I love to play them.
  • BeardedTacoBeardedTaco Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    she does have added equity being a girl as if she goes deep (:laugh:) she will have a better shot at getting patches/sponsorships

    but to put a full 10k is questionable, anything more then 0.5% of your roll on a one-time tournament purchase is not wise
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited March 2014
    Interesting conversation , probability that big names start winning the main event again ? Or will it continue to be unknowns ?
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    she does have added equity being a girl as if she goes deep (:laugh:) she will have a better shot at getting patches/sponsorships

    but to put a full 10k is questionable, anything more then 0.5% of your roll on a one-time tournament purchase is not wise

    lol, I wanna see her equity when she realizes the levels are 120min and not 20. I think he is doing it for fun and not the $, post the pic BK
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Goats wrote: »
    I'm by no means a poker expert, but one thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that the bankroll needed to play high buy-in tourneys (while keeping risk of ruin at a reasonable level) is pretty large due to the amount of variance. Selling parts of oneself and/or having a backer does not necessarily mean one is anywhere near broke.

    Excellent post, I myself am an example of this. I will generally bankroll myself 100% in tournaments 1k and under, 2k and up will generally post up 50% of my own and sell each remaining 10% for 7%. Ex. 5k buy-in, I post up 50% and the remaining 50% is sold for a 35% share, therefore I am playing for 65%...50% true equity, and 15% sweat equity. It's worked out very well for the parties in the group that have partaken. Now for someone new that has no prior history with you I would pull their player profile up and see how many cashes they at least have on record and get an idea of how many tournaments they play a month/year etc. In any case, I would not recommend putting up the entire entry, JMO but I definitely would want them to have some "skin in the game" as I believe it makes a big difference. Also, you need to have a mutual understanding ahead of time if they get down to a chop situation, ie., no chop or chop only if top three spots etc. if it's a seasoned player I would let them make the discretionary call based on each specific situation ie., player skill level remaining, blinds structure, etc. Again, this is just one way that I do it and it has worked well for me....as Goats said, I'm far from broke but it is a way to leverage the amount of tournaments played while at the same time being able to handle the variance that comes with the territory. One other thing I forgot to mention, I won't play if there isn't a decent overlay and I very rarely will go more than a single bullet unless it is an extremely good overlay and the blind levels/times are still low relative to starting stack. Just some food for thought BK if you're serious about putting that player in, hope it helps. Btw, I'm in for seeing that picture as well ;)
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Reb

    Excellent read. Now I realize I got you and BK mixed up in post 8.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    Reb

    Excellent read. Now I realize I got you and BK mixed up in post 8.

    Thanks, will definitely try and make it next Tues., will set that part of the afternoon aside and leave my office early....might try and petition for the bar at the book in Venetian if possible lol. Btw, that is exactly one week from the advisory panel meeting on MNKD, it's getting pretty close. See ya soon -R
  • originalokieoriginalokie Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Agree with Reb

    Coops and Buy The Hook backed me but my back was in too much pain
    We will do it again

    WSOP main event is a f---- grind; mentally, but much more physically

    BK, tons of good players
    Tons
  • buythehookbuythehook Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Agree with Reb

    Coops and Buy The Hook backed me but my back was in too much pain
    We will do it again

    WSOP main event is a f---- grind; mentally, but much more physically

    BK, tons of good players
    Tons


    Would love To back you again. Just let me know. Have fun this week in Vegas!
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited March 2014
    Thanks guys I really appreciate all the insight. I am not trying to get laid for 10k, gosh I hope I could get laid for less then that.
    The young lady seems like a great lady with her shit together and her and I have become good friends over the past few years, by good friends I mean she is a bartender at my favorite watering hole and I see her every Thursday where me and the fella's change envelopes. She is no fool she knows what we are all doing there every Thursday but not sure she knows the amounts.
    Anyway , she has talked about Poker for a long time, I rarely paid attention until the topic turned to the Main event a couple months ago, she said something to the effect I want to go play it this year If I get an investor/sponsor. So the topic has been getting kicked around for the past few weeks, I doubt I will pony up the 10k now that I have heard the views of pro's, but I might kick in 2,500 or 5k. But the more I think about it, the more it sounds like a pitcher in A minors wanting to pitch against the Angels thinking he can win. I guess it could happen, but most likely not.
    I don't want to lend her the money as that would make my Thursdays awkward and I don't want that either, I would just like to help her out somewhat and be done with it I think.
    Thanks guys really appreciate all the input.

    p.s. I will work on the pix Thursday.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Don't just lend her the money without the juice. Give her A break 3 points a week. No free rides here. JK
    But seriously she knows the amounts in the envelope that's why the conversation took place and I know she brought up the WSOP.

    I'm getting good in poker to. Just wanted you to know that but I play only cash games. :)
    All in good fun looking forward to meeting you.
  • originalokieoriginalokie Senior Member
    edited March 2014
    Damn, this is great

    OT is grilling

    Cash game at his house

    Oh Baby!!!
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