More comedy from the RJ Bell clown show
groovinmahoovin
Senior Member
http://www.wagerminds.com/blog/touts/rj-bell-pregame-ceo-responds-to-questions-7875/
In case anyone needed a morning laugh. RJ mentions RAS, claiming that :
Let's see, 14 free picks last year with an expectation of perhaps 55%. For a $500 bettor who can't afford the service, that's about $385 in expectation, and since those picks ran good, the bettor actually profited $3850. Meanwhile, all of RJ's "free content" is so great that he refuses to keep records for many of the free picks, and grades the others as 0 units.
As an aside, Pregame has claimed in the last few days that I'm a shill for RAS, while later justifying banning me from my very first post, a paste of ComptrBob's Fezzik records, because I'm "banned from many other forums including RAS." Let the record show that I am not banned from RAS!
In case anyone needed a morning laugh. RJ mentions RAS, claiming that :
"Free content is an alternative way RAS could help the vast majority who cannot afford his premium rates, but his free content is nearly non-existent."
Let's see, 14 free picks last year with an expectation of perhaps 55%. For a $500 bettor who can't afford the service, that's about $385 in expectation, and since those picks ran good, the bettor actually profited $3850. Meanwhile, all of RJ's "free content" is so great that he refuses to keep records for many of the free picks, and grades the others as 0 units.
As an aside, Pregame has claimed in the last few days that I'm a shill for RAS, while later justifying banning me from my very first post, a paste of ComptrBob's Fezzik records, because I'm "banned from many other forums including RAS." Let the record show that I am not banned from RAS!
Comments
For those of you who don't read other forums, those idiots at Pregame actually challenged me on another forum to bet 1k vs their 10k that I couldn't find a case of grading fraud. I had a 7 month time frame to do it and I submitted my evidence the very next day LOL. The moderators on that forum ruled in my favor, and of course Pregame is now stiffing me on the bet, claiming that the moderators were biased. They picked the forum, they picked the terms of the challenge (Johnny Detroit even claimed he was "tight with the owners" of that forum), and now they're stiffing me. Par for the course with those scammers.
Do these people realize that they're frauds and know that they're running a scam site, or are they so delusional that they think that they're winning bettors running a legitimate site?
I think Fezzik is probably delusional, in the sense that he used to be proficient, and he very slowly became everything he hated. Johnny Detroit strikes me as one of the biggest toolbags in the history of the internet (not hyperbolizing), and he's not smart enough to realize that he's stupid.
Haha, that's awesome. Of course, they aren't going to pay you! Haha!! It was like an incorrect line from the get-go. If they win, they get vindication and 1k. If you win, welp, it's cancelled and you should be given the usual explanation re: "taking shots" like = It's too easy to discredit PG & so it isn't fair
& I am very much enjoying Ed's attack on RJ right now too. Seems like all RJ can do is throw these baseless accusations at Ed. Loved Ed's response, something like: "I couldn't accuse PG of accepting a private offer b/c nobody credible would believe it!"
Hahahaha! Pwned!
Twitter for the past hour or so.
I don't bring it up much because that's a subjective opinion, and these nitwits accuse me of enough bias as it is, but I've had this conversation privately with several of Fezzik's former friends, so to answer your question...
Sometime last year he definitely crossed the line IMO. When he was still on LVA, I could certainly see an argument for delusional. He did a lot of scummy things on LVA, like asking Dreamer to compile his record and then labeling Dreamer a Fezzik-hater when the record sucked, but that isn't quite outright fraud. But since he's joined Pregame, he's outright lied over and over again.
He told the LVAers when he raised the rate to $100/mo that "I fully expect to hit 55% going forward now that I'm charging more than a nominal fee." Now he disavows LVA because it was "a free message board where I sometimes posted picks, but it wasn't a priority." These poor guys on LVA were losing literally 87% of their starting bankrolls following him (someone who was around the entire time would have lost that much with his suggested 1% per play), he kept telling them how he fully expected to turn things around, how he was locked and loaded, bringing his A game, get on board or get out of my way, how he was staying up all night poring over box scores and watching lots of game film. Now he says it wasn't a priority??? What a scumbag.
When Pregame was asked for Fezzik's past records and they said "No records, he's a pro who, for the first time, finally thinks a site is selling picks the right way," you can argue that he couldn't control that, and you can argue that he had no control when they banned the poor guys who posted "How can I pay $1000/mo for Fezzik when I lost so much paying $25/mo and $100/mo?" But to flat out lie and say the board wasn't a priority, after you spent so much time telling your customers how hard you were working and how you fully expected to hit 55%, crosses the line from delusional into fraud.
Pretty much. Johnny just has no clue at all. He brags that he got booted twice from SIA for scalping. He brags that most major books have booted or limited him, yet he tells people that CRIS has never lowered anyone's quarter or team totals limits. They claim there are people getting down 10k and 50k on BLAP plays, which include many quarters, team totals, and props, and if you can't get down, you need more outs. Just complete, flat out lies.
Favorite "Pregame party" moment -- a couple months after they launch BLAP, Pregame has a conference call for all these guys supposedly paying $1000/mo for Fezzik's picks. They ask a bunch of complete newbie questions and eat it all up, ask if Fezzik's experts mind that he releases their plays to BLAP and Fezzik says "These guys mostly are small bettors who handicap for the love of the game rather than money, like someone who plays a $50 or $100 fantasy league for fun." Someone asks why someone would go to Vegas to bet the Sweet Sixteen and the Final Four when you can just bet from home, and Johnny Detroit chimes in "For the parties!" and several other callers express agreement.
Got to give it to WM, they go after them pretty regularly.
which forum?
http://forums.eog.com/showthread.php?t=359827&page=11&p=4159874&viewfull=1#post4159874
Don't waste your time reading the entire thread unless you're as sick an individual as I am. By page 2, mods BoatBoatBoat and KingRevolver ruled in my favor. Highlights of the insanity include our old friend "Groovin uses ghosts" making an appearance, where I get accused of being IrishTim again (we were both on the EOG radio show numerous times!), and then Andy claiming I wrote on Wikipedia that his grandfather was a Congressman.
You'll notice that Johnny and Andy are now banned from EOG for 1) failing to settle the debt 2) posting personal info of mine, claiming to have gotten it from "the owners of EOG, who are six steps above the mods." Looks like Johnny isn't as tight with the mods as he claimed.
These guys are all delusional by the way.
LMAO. Johnny once said in another forum something along the lines of "we bet for the action and entertainment". I quickly replied that it was primarily for the $$.
Part of how he did it was by hiring a PR firm to get his name out. His PR firm represents Bill Simmons and some other ESPN/Grantland personalities, so there you go.
How he initially became famous is a great microcosm for his general practices. He issued some press release about the Donaghy scandal, claiming to have found some irregularites in Donaghy reffed games. One was that an "eye popping" number of games fell near the number, which turned out to be exactly what we'd expect by random luck. Another involved some stat he didn't calculate correctly. (He still can't do basic probability.) Finally, he claimed to have a list of games he identified with unusual line movements where the side that took the money won every time.
Obviously the first two statements are crap, but the final one might be something. So a few people asked to see the list of games to confirm. RJ replied that "On the advice of his attorneys, he couldn't post the list." WTF legal problems he could have there after posting so much else about the scandal, who knows, but he never did publish that list, but numerous media outlets reported that "Gambling expert RJ Bell discovered a list of games..." In fact, one of Pregame's brags is that Wikipedia's page on the Donaghy scandal features "an entire paragraph about Pregame's investigation."
"So I’m sitting in the barber chair Thursday morning with Sue C. applying whatever mix of gunk she concocts to keep my beard and few remaining hairs dark (I know, I’m 61 and at this point it’s waste of time, but for $30 a week, screw it), and I’m immersed in Twitter when all of a sudden all hell breaks loose. A couple of high profile and I would say well respected pick sellers are battling with an industry watchdog serving as the third man in the ring.
I have no stake in this scrap but decide to comment that I find the whole thing, while entertaining, really counterproductive. I’ve literally been in this game longer than most of the current crop of pay ‘cappers have been alive, so I think I know what I’m talking about as far as the business itself is concerned.
I’ll make this very simple. It’s not that these feuds are a black eye for the industry. Hell, we ran out of eyes to blacken back in the 2oth century. But it’s still kind of dumb to start firing off public accusations. In other words, if Mr. X has an issue with Mr. Z, keep it private. It’s one of the ultimate glass house industries, and you know what that old axiom is regarding glass houses, right?
As for the watchdog, as well intentioned as he or she might be, my sense is that the only people who care about what they publish are almost exclusively those who already know the score for the most part. I’ll pass along an absolutely true story that proves this theory.
I can’t remember the year precisely, but it’s circa 1990. The sports advisory industry was simply blowing up back then. I kid you not, if you were high visibility, you basically had a license to print money, and some of the stuff going on was just incredible.
Right around that time, Sports Illustrated, HBO and the Wall Street Journal each decided to expose the practices of a handful of really big names in the industry. I would imagine you can still find the SI piece in their online vault, as they’re pretty good about archiving virtually everything they’ve put into print over the years.
Anyway, they came down really hard on some of the allegedly shadier members of the business. I remember my first thought at the time was that the names they’d exposed may as well find a new line of work, as they were going to get destroyed with this negative publicity. I could not have been more wrong.
The outfits that came under attack simply spun all the bad print to make themselves seem more legitimate. I can specifically recall one very big name tout who had been crushed in the Wall Street Journal. I mean, they annihilated him! Next football season, he’s running full page ads in every rag, and in bold print he’s got “featured in the Wall Street Journal!” I did not know this individual personally, but through the very reliable pipeline, was told in no uncertain terms that the phones rang off the hook like they never had before and they raked in millions. All as a result of negative publicity.
Before I turn this into a short novel, I’ll wrap it up with this. My sage advice to all in the pick selling business is to simply mind your own business. Trying to make the other guy look bad is not going to hurt the other guy, and in fact might actually help him as in a sense it’s free pub. I could go on and on with examples, but I’ve made my point, and you can take it for what it’s worth."
reasons why I posted this:
- I like his viewpoint. The more attention you give these scammers, the more they'll benefit. While I'm thankful for people like Groovin, Ed and Wagerminds, I feel like the one ultimately benefitting from all the hassle is RJ
- Dave says: "A couple of high profile and I would say well respected pick sellers"..... I completely disagree with this as there's only 1 respected and high profile pick seller in that conversation (RAS). Goes to tell you that Dave doesn't dare to call RJ out.
I'm not from the US, I'm sorry but I've completely missed the cultural references about the massage parlour and Mike Warren.
Wouldn't mind hearing more about Dave Cokin's background. I've only been betting for 7 years.
I'll omit the message parlor reference and mention that Mike Warren(AKA Michael Warren Lasky) ran/runs a tout service that was/is borderline fraud and deception.
Dave Cokin is a transplanted R.I. Jew.....Whoah, being descriptive. Was married to a J.A.P. for years and no prejudice here. DC's knowledgeable and personable. I repect his opinion and experience. He mighta sold his soul to the Devil(JFeist) and his radio sponsors but he's doing what he needs to survive??? As far as I'm concerned, he's more of a help than a hindrance.
One of those cheesy blacklight velvet sad clowns that hung in the basement next to the lava lamp and the bean bag chair.
I don't agree with this at all. Like Rhombus said, RJ is already on ESPN and Grantland all the time. The amount of exposure I can give him is a drop in the bucket compared to that. I rarely listen to the radio, but a couple months ago a friend had sports radio on, and in 10 minutes, I heard two promos that "later we'll have RJ Bell from Vegas previewing this week's NFL games."
I read that SI article from the early 90s recently (it was linked in one of these recent Pregame articles asking why the mainstream media is now so accepting of scam touts), and I'm sure most of those touts had hardly ever been mentioned in the mainstream media, if at all. Big difference between talking about a guy who's all over the mainstream media, vs an unknown.
Sometimes I'm asked why I go after Pregame, rather than the screaming guys on TV selling their "stone cold mortal locks," since Pregame touts actually make an effort to analyze the game and will sometimes mention "realistic" expectations like hitting 55-60% long term, rather than the "this bet will not lose!" stuff. I don't really see a difference between selling coin flips claiming they'll hit 55-60%, or can't lose--both are frauds--and in the case of the screaming guys, since they aren't given attention in the mainstream media, I would be giving them unneeded publicity.
Dave's also a tout, so no need to burn his bridges.
Yes he should! As I said, I am really thankful for the work they do. Just saying that those scammers are experienced and good at what they do, they'll twist the truth like Johnny Cochran. (Ron, yes the Simpson trial was broadcast here too
It has been asked a couple of times already on twitter and by a couple of independent blogs (Mattrud amongst others): Why are respectable outlets like ESPN, WSJ, NYT etc giving these guys exposure?
To those fighting the scammers, keep up the good work! Know that you saved a lot of people a lot of money.