For the answer as to why. Well ESPN hires Chris Carter, Tom Jackson and Chris Berman to discuss actual NFL football, their biggest money maker. After his RJ Bell segment, Cowherd might call someone Trent Dilfer or Mel Kiper. We know the pregame guys are bad, b/c we are so close to sports betting, but they are really par for the course for ESPN. Draft geeks get just as annoyed at Mel Kiper. Recruiting nerds hate the ESPN coverage. College football coaches probably laugh even harder than we do at the football analysis.
As to if we should care. I think this is about as good as it gets. Sports betting gets some mainstream coverage with RJ Bell talking about shit like sharp/square line movement and Fezzik talking about places for athletes to live, and coaching decisions. "Good gambling info" is Dr Bob giving up yards per play modeling in writeups and interviews. Helmut talking about CBB pace WAY back in the day on podcasts. KenPom being recognized as the CBB info leader by mainstream media. Wong writing a book on BS teasers. Sure, maybe it feels better when those good guys get credit rather than RJ Bell or Fezzik, but it doesn't feel THAT much better. Grin and bear it, but feel to take shots at the hilarious record keeping, poor logic, etc. Like Groovin does. It helps to keep sane. Just realize the alternative is the RAS braintrust out there talking about Big Sky teams to fade, or some sharp kid explaining his college football model.
As expected, the Pregame poster who posted this article on the forum had his post immediately deleted and he's been banned for life. Johnny Detroit even felt the need to start a thread titled DELCODONNY - BANNED FOR LIFE with a long explanation of how he didn't have respect for the site. The message is clear -- unless you toe the party line, you'll be immediately banned from the site.
As I've mentioned many times before, I was banned from Pregame after my first post, a post where I quoted ComptrBob's documented LVA records for Fezzik that were compiled at Fezzik's request.
Apparently there was confusion about "the last 5 years of RAS" with regards to this year's CFB and CBB, and RJ and the Pregame shills are accusing the author and RAS of selectively reporting records because "this year wasn't a good one for RAS." Seriously.
Apparently there was confusion about "the last 5 years of RAS" with regards to this year's CFB and CBB, and RJ and the Pregame shills are accusing the author and RAS of selectively reporting records because "this year wasn't a good one for RAS." Seriously.
That was one of the most rage inducing reads I have had in a long time.
If the kid is still around who wrote this, can we get the story on which of that fat losers friends called you demanding you write a rebuttal?
Reading this article tilted me a good bit. These clowns couldn't pass an intro to handicapping class, let alone originate +EV picks in all major markets. It literally makes me want to throw up knowing RJ Bell is featured on ESPN, Grantland, etc and is probably clearing a pretty penny in the process. All while I walk several blocks to and from work in the worst winter in history to earn what I'd consider a small paycheck.
Unless he is hiding his millions under a mattress, his office and vehicle don't show much in the way of success. His "business" is located in a very old and small office complex that is half-vacated, in a crappy part of LV southeast of the airport and he drives a Jeep that looks like it may need last rites. I quote from having seen his operation firsthand. Bare bones crew and all looking like they could be handing out flyers on the strip for girls that come to your room.
It should also be mentioned that one of their "handicappers", Greg Shurden or "AAA Sports" as is his moniker at Pregame, stole my plays and writeups and resold them as his own for over two years before being exposed. AAA Sports was also a member of this forum a few years back who caused more harm than good.
Unless he is hiding his millions under a mattress, his office and vehicle don't show much in the way of success. His "business" is located in a very old and small office complex that is half-vacated, in a crappy part of LV southeast of the airport and he drives a Jeep that looks like it may need last rites. I quote from having seen his operation firsthand. Bare bones crew and all looking like they could be handing out flyers on the strip for girls that come to your room.
LOL. The "runner's look of the 90's". Also add in logo gear to feel connected.
Great suggestions; thanks a ton. Full disclosure here -- I wrote the article in just about one full work day -- it was definitely a bit rushed. It's tough for me to devote a lot of time to one story given the BS economics of the blogosphere (I usually write ~6-8 short posts per day), but I would really like to do so with this (or something related).
I'll definitely be on the lookout for anything that catches my eye. You're completely right -- it's annoying that forum posts are the only "proof," but first of all, PREGAME should be the ones having to prove THEIR worth, and obviously it's tough to explain to people that a forum like this isn't your average message board. That's why it took me so long to start writing this -- it was tough to make a convincing argument, even though this stuff is all obvious to anyone who pays attention.
And just so you guys know, somebody at Pregame posted the article in their forum, in a thread titled, "Pregame portrayed in a negative light." Deleted like an hour later. Ha. Typical. They didn't even say they agreed with me. It was, here's an article, "do you guys think of Pregame in the same way?"
It's like Russia over there. RJ Putin.
Matt,
One other fine point that was made by the PR flack, was that they have an A+ Rating from the BBB. The BBB is well known for enticing businesses to "support" them by making contributions to gain those ratings. I have experienced this first hand. An A+ comes with a price, it is rarely arbitrary nor accurate. That said, many A+ business registered with the BBB are indeed well-run and deserve the rating. Notice in the page link at the BBB site that they have no complaints, but also no feedback at all, positive or negative. This tells me that disgruntled clients are either unaware of their BBB affiliation, or are too lazy to report their negative experiences.
One other fine point that was made by the PR flack, was that they have an A+ Rating from the BBB. The BBB is well known for enticing businesses to "support" them by making contributions to gain those ratings. I have experienced this first hand. An A+ comes with a price, it is rarely arbitrary nor accurate. That said, many A+ business registered with the BBB are indeed well-run and deserve the rating. Notice in the page link at the BBB site that they have no complaints, but also no feedback at all, positive or negative. This tells me that disgruntled clients are either unaware of their BBB affiliation, or are too lazy to report their negative experiences.
the BBB lost all clout once internet business became common, they used to have actual power but now saying you have an A+ rating at the BBB means nothing.
It should also be mentioned that one of their "handicappers", Greg Shurden or "AAA Sports" as is his moniker at Pregame, stole my plays and writeups and resold them as his own for over two years before being exposed. AAA Sports was also a member of this forum a few years back who caused more harm than good.
And he is one of the better (copy) cappers on that site. There are a few good cappers on that site.
One other fine point that was made by the PR flack, was that they have an A+ Rating from the BBB. The BBB is well known for enticing businesses to "support" them by making contributions to gain those ratings. I have experienced this first hand. An A+ comes with a price, it is rarely arbitrary nor accurate. That said, many A+ business registered with the BBB are indeed well-run and deserve the rating. Notice in the page link at the BBB site that they have no complaints, but also no feedback at all, positive or negative. This tells me that disgruntled clients are either unaware of their BBB affiliation, or are too lazy to report their negative experiences.
Ah, interesting. I didn't know much about the BBB; this is helpful. Thanks.
That was one of the most rage inducing reads I have had in a long time.
If the kid is still around who wrote this, can we get the story on which of that fat losers friends called you demanding you write a rebuttal?
Despite my best efforts at the bar this weekend, I am still around. Sadly not much of an exciting story. I got an email the day after publishing from "Lewis Kay," who is supposedly "one of the most powerful publicists in LA." Represents Bill Simmons... "Jimmy Kimmel, Amy Poehler, Will Arnett, Zooey Deschanel, Louis CK, Tracy Morgan, Chris D’Elia, Joel McHale, Sarah Silverman and Paul Scheer." And RJ Fucking Bell.
Basically just said my post was "hilariously inaccurate and grossly unprofessional" and that "it is generally good form to conduct a basic amount of research before firing off an agenda filled post." Something about being "unnecessarily reckless" and "throwing opinions around as if they are facts." I laughed a lot. Then, he said "either take down the post or publish RJ's rebuttal." He sent it at midnight and said if I didn't respond by 9am (I was sleeping the whole time!), "RJ would post it elsewhere." Oh, no!
I published it because it gave me the chance to rip it apart. Thanks, RJ!
...
Also, I just got an email from a Buzzfeed writer who is profiling "legendary pro bettor Bill Krackomberger?" He wants me to comment on the story (I haven't seen it yet), and obviously, I'm a bit skeptical. The writer says he got good access and is under the impression that the guy is one of the few good guys out there. I haven't done any research yet and have no idea if this is true. Anyone know who he is?
Matt,
I've known Billy(Krackman) for many years and can attest to his sharpness and crediblity. Let me put this way, if I was back in the bookmaking biz Krackman would be my most feared customer. Truly a genuine guy with a good heart too. I've chided him many times for his Millman podcasts and other public service ventures he has foolishly provided. A solid rated #10 in this biz. That's all I have to write/say.
It should also be mentioned that one of their "handicappers", Greg Shurden or "AAA Sports" as is his moniker at Pregame, stole my plays and writeups and resold them as his own for over two years before being exposed. AAA Sports was also a member of this forum a few years back who caused more harm than good.
This must be common practice for these con artists....
A couple of years ago before my service was up and running I had a guy contact me who had subscribed to payneinsider.com website (at the time I was just posting NBA picks free on twitter) and notified me that this dude was selling the picks I was posting on twitter as his own.
Thinking it was just a coincidence the next day the NBA had a 13 game card.
That night I posted 3 plays (I don't remember exactly what they were but for explanation sake I am going to say it was Utah+8, Hawks/Pacers UNDER 187, and N.O.+7.5.
So I post my plays on twitter and sure enough about 15-20 minutes later the guy who had subscribed to that website PM'd me on twitter and asked for an email address so that he could forward the payneinsider.com email with that day's plays to me.
I open the forwarded email and wallah.....Utah+9, Hawks/Pacers UNDER 187, and N.O+7.5.
Like I said that was a day with 13 games on the board....pretty unlikely coincidence IMO.
So I start looking through my twitter followers at the time and what do you know???? @payneinsider followed me.
I blocked him and started my service not long afterwards.
I always laugh when I hear guys like RJ Bell or someone of the like on the radio talking sports betting.
Meanwhile....we just keep on winning going somewhat under the radar.
I guess money used for smart advertising always trumps actual results.
This guy 'Greek Gambler' has been on twitter for awhile and he used to post mostly European sports picks (basketball, soccer) and tennis. Occasionally he would have NBA and NFL picks. All posted for free. Last year he ran a pool, everybody could get in, all you had to do was paypal him the $50 subscription fee. He ran the pool neatly with weekly updates in excel sheets. This year he does the same thing, but does it for NCAAB, NCAAF, NFL and NBA. all pools end up around $25.000,-
His last post on twitter is from january 29th. Stuckey2, who won the NFL contest, wants his money, but hasn't heard from the Greek Gambler since. His last tweet is about his grandmother passing away. So he might be off the grid for family reasons, but it might also be that he ran with the 100K.
As I said, it's still developing.
Anybody else has more info maybe?
Matt,
I've known Billy(Krackman) for many years and can attest to his sharpness and crediblity. Let me put this way, if I was back in the bookmaking biz Krackman would be my most feared customer. Truly a genuine guy with a good heart too. I've chided him many times for his Millman podcasts and other public service ventures he has foolishly provided. A solid rated #10 in this biz. That's all I have to write/say.
This guy 'Greek Gambler' has been on twitter for awhile and he used to post mostly European sports picks (basketball, soccer) and tennis. Occasionally he would have NBA and NFL picks. All posted for free. Last year he ran a pool, everybody could get in, all you had to do was paypal him the $50 subscription fee. He ran the pool neatly with weekly updates in excel sheets. This year he does the same thing, but does it for NCAAB, NCAAF, NFL and NBA. all pools end up around $25.000,-
His last post on twitter is from january 29th. Stuckey2, who won the NFL contest, wants his money, but hasn't heard from the Greek Gambler since. His last tweet is about his grandmother passing away. So he might be off the grid for family reasons, but it might also be that he ran with the 100K.
As I said, it's still developing.
Anybody else has more info maybe?
I follow Stuckey and saw the story and am definitely intrigued/bothered. I'll be keeping an eye on it, but don't have any more info at the moment. Hoping it's just personal stuff and will be resolved soon, but doesn't seem like it...
Johnny Detroit has posted some absolute insanity over on EOG. It's 15 pages worth of insanity, but the real insanity begins in response to Bryan Leonard's "CBB Game of the Year" yesterday where two "bonus plays" were apparently never sent to some subscribers. The fiasco is a bit tl;dr and tough to summarize (if you're morbidly curious just read the thread), but in response, Johnny Detroit explained that it's standard procedure to allow their touts to put up a CBB GOY package for sale the night before the game, with a note that the package will be updated the next day. In Leonard's case, he allegedly put his GOY package for sale Sunday night and updated it at 1110am Eastern on Monday.
Johnny said "no disrespect but in regards to status notes and release times that have been part of the process from day #1, will not debate or discuss." and "once again. a package can be put up without the selection attached. in the event that happens, the Pro loads in the status notes when it will be updated. it will show in bolded letters on the package... anyone who has every spent time at Pregame or bought a pick can attest to the above. this is one i am 100000000% sure on and will not debate. was part of our system the day we launched the site and is used on a daily basis. "
In other words, they allow their touts to sell a GOY package Sunday night before they have any idea what the line will be by the time they get around to releasing the GOY.
It really shouldn't shock anyone that none of the Pregame touts, or RJ Bell, or Johnny Detroit would give a shit about whether they're selling a GOY at +7 or +5 since these "pros" are all coin-flippers anyway and they aren't advertizing to the type of person who gives a shit about the line either, but I was pretty shocked that Johnny Detroit would not only openly admit to that, but that he'd also think that it's such a legitimate business practice that he'd say "this is not up for debate or discussion."
Obviously most Pregame readers are completely clueless, but even some of the novice gamblers on forums like EOG are aware enough to know that it's nonsense to advertise that you'll have GOY long in advance of knowing what the line will be.
Comments
As to if we should care. I think this is about as good as it gets. Sports betting gets some mainstream coverage with RJ Bell talking about shit like sharp/square line movement and Fezzik talking about places for athletes to live, and coaching decisions. "Good gambling info" is Dr Bob giving up yards per play modeling in writeups and interviews. Helmut talking about CBB pace WAY back in the day on podcasts. KenPom being recognized as the CBB info leader by mainstream media. Wong writing a book on BS teasers. Sure, maybe it feels better when those good guys get credit rather than RJ Bell or Fezzik, but it doesn't feel THAT much better. Grin and bear it, but feel to take shots at the hilarious record keeping, poor logic, etc. Like Groovin does. It helps to keep sane. Just realize the alternative is the RAS braintrust out there talking about Big Sky teams to fade, or some sharp kid explaining his college football model.
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
As I've mentioned many times before, I was banned from Pregame after my first post, a post where I quoted ComptrBob's documented LVA records for Fezzik that were compiled at Fezzik's request.
http://www.sportsgrid.com/gamblin/rj-bell-emailed-sportsgrid-this-unsuccessful-pr-blitz/
Apparently there was confusion about "the last 5 years of RAS" with regards to this year's CFB and CBB, and RJ and the Pregame shills are accusing the author and RAS of selectively reporting records because "this year wasn't a good one for RAS." Seriously.
That was one of the most rage inducing reads I have had in a long time.
If the kid is still around who wrote this, can we get the story on which of that fat losers friends called you demanding you write a rebuttal?
Unless he is hiding his millions under a mattress, his office and vehicle don't show much in the way of success. His "business" is located in a very old and small office complex that is half-vacated, in a crappy part of LV southeast of the airport and he drives a Jeep that looks like it may need last rites. I quote from having seen his operation firsthand. Bare bones crew and all looking like they could be handing out flyers on the strip for girls that come to your room.
LOL. The "runner's look of the 90's". Also add in logo gear to feel connected.
Matt,
One other fine point that was made by the PR flack, was that they have an A+ Rating from the BBB. The BBB is well known for enticing businesses to "support" them by making contributions to gain those ratings. I have experienced this first hand. An A+ comes with a price, it is rarely arbitrary nor accurate. That said, many A+ business registered with the BBB are indeed well-run and deserve the rating. Notice in the page link at the BBB site that they have no complaints, but also no feedback at all, positive or negative. This tells me that disgruntled clients are either unaware of their BBB affiliation, or are too lazy to report their negative experiences.
the BBB lost all clout once internet business became common, they used to have actual power but now saying you have an A+ rating at the BBB means nothing.
And he is one of the better (copy) cappers on that site. There are a few good cappers on that site.
Ah, interesting. I didn't know much about the BBB; this is helpful. Thanks.
Despite my best efforts at the bar this weekend, I am still around. Sadly not much of an exciting story. I got an email the day after publishing from "Lewis Kay," who is supposedly "one of the most powerful publicists in LA." Represents Bill Simmons... "Jimmy Kimmel, Amy Poehler, Will Arnett, Zooey Deschanel, Louis CK, Tracy Morgan, Chris D’Elia, Joel McHale, Sarah Silverman and Paul Scheer." And RJ Fucking Bell.
Basically just said my post was "hilariously inaccurate and grossly unprofessional" and that "it is generally good form to conduct a basic amount of research before firing off an agenda filled post." Something about being "unnecessarily reckless" and "throwing opinions around as if they are facts." I laughed a lot. Then, he said "either take down the post or publish RJ's rebuttal." He sent it at midnight and said if I didn't respond by 9am (I was sleeping the whole time!), "RJ would post it elsewhere." Oh, no!
I published it because it gave me the chance to rip it apart. Thanks, RJ!
...
Also, I just got an email from a Buzzfeed writer who is profiling "legendary pro bettor Bill Krackomberger?" He wants me to comment on the story (I haven't seen it yet), and obviously, I'm a bit skeptical. The writer says he got good access and is under the impression that the guy is one of the few good guys out there. I haven't done any research yet and have no idea if this is true. Anyone know who he is?
I've known Billy(Krackman) for many years and can attest to his sharpness and crediblity. Let me put this way, if I was back in the bookmaking biz Krackman would be my most feared customer. Truly a genuine guy with a good heart too. I've chided him many times for his Millman podcasts and other public service ventures he has foolishly provided. A solid rated #10 in this biz. That's all I have to write/say.
This must be common practice for these con artists....
A couple of years ago before my service was up and running I had a guy contact me who had subscribed to payneinsider.com website (at the time I was just posting NBA picks free on twitter) and notified me that this dude was selling the picks I was posting on twitter as his own.
Thinking it was just a coincidence the next day the NBA had a 13 game card.
That night I posted 3 plays (I don't remember exactly what they were but for explanation sake I am going to say it was Utah+8, Hawks/Pacers UNDER 187, and N.O.+7.5.
So I post my plays on twitter and sure enough about 15-20 minutes later the guy who had subscribed to that website PM'd me on twitter and asked for an email address so that he could forward the payneinsider.com email with that day's plays to me.
I open the forwarded email and wallah.....Utah+9, Hawks/Pacers UNDER 187, and N.O+7.5.
Like I said that was a day with 13 games on the board....pretty unlikely coincidence IMO.
So I start looking through my twitter followers at the time and what do you know???? @payneinsider followed me.
I blocked him and started my service not long afterwards.
I always laugh when I hear guys like RJ Bell or someone of the like on the radio talking sports betting.
Meanwhile....we just keep on winning going somewhat under the radar.
I guess money used for smart advertising always trumps actual results.
What can you do?
Are you following the GreekGambler story?
This guy 'Greek Gambler' has been on twitter for awhile and he used to post mostly European sports picks (basketball, soccer) and tennis. Occasionally he would have NBA and NFL picks. All posted for free. Last year he ran a pool, everybody could get in, all you had to do was paypal him the $50 subscription fee. He ran the pool neatly with weekly updates in excel sheets. This year he does the same thing, but does it for NCAAB, NCAAF, NFL and NBA. all pools end up around $25.000,-
His last post on twitter is from january 29th. Stuckey2, who won the NFL contest, wants his money, but hasn't heard from the Greek Gambler since. His last tweet is about his grandmother passing away. So he might be off the grid for family reasons, but it might also be that he ran with the 100K.
As I said, it's still developing.
Anybody else has more info maybe?
Awesome, thanks. Great to know.
I follow Stuckey and saw the story and am definitely intrigued/bothered. I'll be keeping an eye on it, but don't have any more info at the moment. Hoping it's just personal stuff and will be resolved soon, but doesn't seem like it...
Johnny said "no disrespect but in regards to status notes and release times that have been part of the process from day #1, will not debate or discuss." and "once again. a package can be put up without the selection attached. in the event that happens, the Pro loads in the status notes when it will be updated. it will show in bolded letters on the package... anyone who has every spent time at Pregame or bought a pick can attest to the above. this is one i am 100000000% sure on and will not debate. was part of our system the day we launched the site and is used on a daily basis. "
In other words, they allow their touts to sell a GOY package Sunday night before they have any idea what the line will be by the time they get around to releasing the GOY.
It really shouldn't shock anyone that none of the Pregame touts, or RJ Bell, or Johnny Detroit would give a shit about whether they're selling a GOY at +7 or +5 since these "pros" are all coin-flippers anyway and they aren't advertizing to the type of person who gives a shit about the line either, but I was pretty shocked that Johnny Detroit would not only openly admit to that, but that he'd also think that it's such a legitimate business practice that he'd say "this is not up for debate or discussion."
Obviously most Pregame readers are completely clueless, but even some of the novice gamblers on forums like EOG are aware enough to know that it's nonsense to advertise that you'll have GOY long in advance of knowing what the line will be.