Betting Talk

Why isn't Tony Stewart in jail?

Dr. HDr. H Senior Member
edited August 2014 in Sports Betting
http://deadspin.com/reports-tony-stewart-ran-over-opposing-driver-during-1618893708
Tyler Graves, a sprint-car racer and friend of Ward's, told Sporting News in a phone interview that he was sitting in the Turn 1 grandstands and saw everything that happened.

"Tony pinched him into the frontstretch wall, a racing thing," Graves said. "The right rear tire went down, he spun on the exit of (Turn) 2. They threw the caution and everything was toned down. Kevin got out of his car. … He was throwing his arms up all over the place at Tony for most of the corner.

"I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."

Comments

  • originalokieoriginalokie Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Absolutely a horrible Title!
  • Dr. HDr. H Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Absolutely a horrible Title!

    Educate me. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, and I am no lawyer or racing expert, but from my view, he killed someone.
  • originalokieoriginalokie Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Jeff, it was a very tragic accident; definitely not intentional in any manner; could make this a very long discussion; both drivers made poor decisions!!!

    BEST
  • Dr. HDr. H Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    I just have a really hard time believing that a professional driver couldn't avoid someone. And the revving of the engine just before impact...
  • 2sportguy2sportguy Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Jeff, it was a very tragic accident; definitely not intentional in any manner; could make this a very long discussion; both drivers made poor decisions!!!

    BEST

    How is this an accident ? The guys was on the track waving his arms about for a good 5-10 seconds , you telling me Stewart could not see him ?

    Probably Tony just wanted to give him a little scare and " missed "

    Jail all the way.
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    After "sleeping on it" Stewart decided to pull out of the race. Sleeping on it? Who the fuck could sleep at all after doing what he did. Just the fact that he even considered racing shows what kind of person he is.
  • golfguru1golfguru1 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    I think it was an accident, these drivers must learn it is not safe to get out of the vehicles during a race unless the field is halted, not sure why they do and amazing it has never happened before. Should be a race ban for several races if you get out of your race car in such a matter like this and many other times before. Terrible tragedy and I am sad a wonderful life was taken. My thoughts to his family and may he RIP.
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Dr. H wrote: »
    I just have a really hard time believing that a professional driver couldn't avoid someone. And the revving of the engine just before impact...

    Exactly. This isn't like any one of us hitting a pedestrian in the street, Stewart is a professional race car driver. Also, I don't follow the sport, but apparently Stewart is known for having a bad temper fwiw.
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited August 2014
    Whether he was capable of avoiding him as a professional driver is irrelevant. The only way a prosecutor would take this on is if he 100% knew Stewart intended to hit him. Good luck proving that one. The fact is the kid got out of the car and walked into the middle of oncoming traffic. I'm sure they've all signed contracts absolving liability. And obviously normal traffic laws involving vehicular homicide don't apply here. It's like a boxer killing a guy in the ring. You know the risks when you sign up.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Jafar is correct. I'll tell what though, I'll bet you that LawBoy would love to represent Ward's parents in a civil suit. Multi-million asking price. What they setlle on will be 7 figures atleast.
  • blackbullblackbull Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Not my area of legal expertise, but I would be interested to know the charge and the associated legal standard. If it's recklessness (as I would project), I certainly think that's provable. Obviously, the standard would be much higher in a sporting event such as this, but if they find in a court of law that Tony Stewart took intentional action to maneuver his car towards Kevin Ward with the intent of "scaring him," that's certainly an action that should not be exonerated.

    But again, I'm not a practicing attorney and my areas of focus in law school were quantitative law, legal engineering, and estate planning. So take it FWIW.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    UPDATE 5:30 p.m. Monday August 11, 2014

    Ontario County (N.Y.) Sheriff Phil Povero said earlier that Tony Stewart is not being investigated for criminal wrongdoing in Saturday nights accident that killed Kevin Ward Jr.

    "Again, I want to please emphasize and make it clear that at this very moment there are no facts in hand that would substantiate or support a criminal charge or indicate criminal intent on the part of any individual," said Povero.

    IMO Canandaigua prosecutors would be a 20-1 dog versus any Stewart legal team.
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited August 2014
    Pages and pages of "release of liability" and numerous driver meetings telling drivers never to get out of their car.

    How is this even an issue that Stewart could possibly have any legal action against him ?

    PLUS aren't drivers looking to avoid cars and collisions not pedestrians walking on the track ?
  • blackbullblackbull Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    Pages and pages of "release of liability" and numerous driver meetings telling drivers never to get out of their car.

    How is this even an issue that Stewart could possibly have any legal action against him ?

    PLUS aren't drivers looking to avoid cars and collisions not pedestrians walking on the track ?

    First, I'm not putting any effort into getting the evidence and law on this so I'm certainly not implying that there is a strong case here. I'm simply stating that it is provable given the right evidence.

    However, as far as a release of liability form: You can put a million pages in that form, but it can't waive liability for a crime committed against you that is unreasonably foreseeable to occur during the course of whatever business practice that you are performing. A driver intentionally aiming his car at another driver who has evacuated his vehicle and walking on the track in order to scare him or hit him is certainly not an action reasonable expected to occur during a race.

    To give you a more simple example to explain the concept: Say you want to go parachuting BK. You go over, sign the waiver, and get on the plane. You and your instructor jump out and then he pulls the parachute and y'all are coasting to the ground. Your instructor then thinks it would be funny to scare you. He gets out his knife and jokes that he's going to cut the connect between you. (Let's imagine it's a one cord connection and not get too caught up into the details of this instructive analogy please, lol) His hand accidentally slips, cuts the cord, and you fall to your death. Did you sign a waiver and protect the company (and it's employees) from reasonably foreseeable accidents that can occur during the practice of parachuting? Sure. Can you waive them from liability for an egregiously unreasonable business practice/criminal action committed against you? Most certainly not.


    ****And again I must state that: I am not a practicing attorney and thus I am not intending to provide legal advice to anyone on this forum as I cannot legally do so.****
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    I think the only way they can prove intent is if Stewart provides it. Don't hold you breathe once he gets lawyered up. I'd imagine he's already under retainer.
  • z045059z045059 Junior Member
    edited August 2014
    Both of these idiots were at fault, perhaps Tony Stewart more than Kevin Ward, Jr.

    Tony Stewart will not serve one minute in jail.

    I would not be surprised if he pays a little money to the family to prevent a civil trial, although I do not believe the family would ultimately prevail in a civil trial.
  • newcombenewcombe Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    I haven't paid too much attention but was curious if Tony came out and spoke at all yet? He needs to come out and preach that it was purely an accident but I am thinking he'll have a hard time doing that with a straight face. Guys a dbag either way...
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    He issued a statement about sorrow and condolences. Wouldn't be too bright on his part to issue a public explaination. Low key is way. The public has a way of convicting ppl prematurely, i.e the Ramsays and the Smarts.
    What I don't understand is why a guy of his expertise would wanna bully around these 3rd rate dirt track guys. Kinda like Negreanu playing 2-4 in Arizona Charlies.
  • jammerjammer Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    z045059 wrote: »
    Both of these idiots were at fault, perhaps Tony Stewart more than Kevin Ward, Jr.

    Tony Stewart will not serve one minute in jail.

    I would not be surprised if he pays a little money to the family to prevent a civil trial, although I do not believe the family would ultimately prevail in a civil trial.

    Can you explain why you feel it was more Stewart's fault? The kid walked down in the middle of the track. The car before Stewart's actually almost hit him and had to swerve to avoid him. Seems like Stewart was a little higher on the track, but tough to tell from the amateur video.
  • h82loseh82lose Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    why would he rev his engine on a caution? I do believe both guys are at fault. But I can not dismiss that Tony has no idea that he was there. Tony has a reputation of being a assholish driver that gets into it with other drivers. I wouldn't surprise me if he was trying to scare the young driver.
  • jammerjammer Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    h82lose wrote: »
    why would he rev his engine on a caution? I do believe both guys are at fault. But I can not dismiss that Tony has no idea that he was there. Tony has a reputation of being a assholish driver that gets into it with other drivers. I wouldn't surprise me if he was trying to scare the young driver.

    I'm not saying Stewart wasn't partially at fault, I have no idea what's going on in his head as he is approaching the kid, but to say he is more at fault than the kid who got out of his car and started walking down to the middle of the track , to me doesn't make sense. Like I said, seemed like he was lucky that the car before Tony didn't clip him. He put himself in a bad situation.
  • bobbyputnambobbyputnam Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    h82lose wrote: »
    why would he rev his engine on a caution?

    It's how you get that specific type of race car to turn, the right rear tire is larger than the left rear tire.
  • ebemissebemiss Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    I've been going to dirt tracks for 25 years. When hitting the accelerator, in the turn on a banked track, the car drifts up the track. The right rear will start to spin. The stagger is meant to help that but it won't stop it with a sudden acceleration. Sprint cars move less than a dirt modified car but they still move up towards the wall.

    In my opinion he probably was trying to scare/intimidate the guy and the accident happened. He didn't mean to hit the guy but he did mean to bully/scare him by kicking the ass end of the car up the track. Spray the guy with some dirt or just make a point not to mess with him.

    Stewart's been coming to a local track by me almost every summer for years (Lebanon Valley). He was just here in July. I have friends that are a major sponsor for one of the best guys on the dirt modified series that have told me stories about Stewart. Plus I've seen his aggressive driving up close.

    The guy is relentless and an ultimate competitor. He's also a big shot bully that loves racing whether it be a pinewood derby car or a Sunday afternoon NASCAR.

    Is he culpable? Sure. Will he be charged? NO! If this fucking guy is one of the best drivers in the world he sure as heck wouldn't hit another human being as he's driving 35-40 MPH in a car that he's driven his whole life. If he wanted to clearly avoid the guy he would have. He wanted to get as close as he could to Ward and make a point in my opinion.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • z045059z045059 Junior Member
    edited August 2014
    jammer wrote: »
    Can you explain why you feel it was more Stewart's fault? The kid walked down in the middle of the track. The car before Stewart's actually almost hit him and had to swerve to avoid him. Seems like Stewart was a little higher on the track, but tough to tell from the amateur video.

    I said perhaps. I get the argument that intent matters. It's one thing to hit the guy while trying to avoid him, and it's another to hit the guy accidentally while only trying to scare him because he pisses you off. The guy standing in traffic is dumb, but it doesn't mean you have the right to scare him off the road by using a speeding car as your instrument. Will never know intent here obviously.

    You can guess (at least somewhat) at Stewart's intent though because:

    a). Tony was involved in the initial accident
    b). Tony was the target of the guy's anger
    c). Everybody else managed to miss him

    However, I've seen a hundred guys walk out onto the track, and this was about the most reckless example that I can remember. He wasn't just walking, he was walking into the middle of the track and looked as though he was actually trying to stop his car. Compound that mistake by doing it at the end of a turn on a short dirt track where you don't have the control that you'd have on a paved straightaway. It was foolish.

    It's hard to see when the caution came out. It looked like those other cars had some pace to them still.

    In the end, I think it's likely Stewart was trying to scare the kid. But, as I thought about it, I don't think it will be that difficult for Stewart to contend he didn't see him until it was too late and his attempt to swerve was unsuccessful given the area of the track where the kid was walking - this is why I'm not even certain at this point that a civil case would be successful.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    A few years ago, with their ratings plummetting, NASCAR welcomed "the boys" to show some emotion on the track. This subtle edict has trickled down to the different racing circuits. We are seeing more helmets thrown and fisticuffs. Surprised this tragedy hasn't happened more often up there.
    It still pisses me off why this multi-millionaire wants to bully these young kids at lower level small tracks.
  • SnakeheadSnakehead Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Ronbets wrote: »
    It still pisses me off why this multi-millionaire wants to bully these young kids at lower level small tracks.
    From what I've read, Stewart has raced sprint cars on dirt tracks all his life and loves it. He does it whenever he has spare time. It's not for money and it's not to bully young kids. If there were races with older, more experienced NASCAR/INDYCAR/etc drivers, I'm sure he would prefer those. I can't think of a good analogy, but a previous post comparing it to Negreanu playing in a $2-4 game is not a good one. That's basically the same game with the only differences being money and possibly skill level. Driving sprint cars on dirt tracks is not the same as running million dollar cars on paved tracks. Not a Stewart fan, I think he's an ass, but this was just a bad accident. It looked like Ward almost stepped in front of Stewart's car, and then probably got too close to the car, where the large back wheel got him. People say that Stewart could have stayed left to avoid him. Well, I say Ward was determined to get to the car and nobody can anticipate what Ward wanted to do. One opinion I read was that Ward was trying to climb INTO Stewart's car.
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    ebemiss wrote: »
    I've been going to dirt tracks for 25 years. When hitting the accelerator, in the turn on a banked track, the car drifts up the track. The right rear will start to spin. The stagger is meant to help that but it won't stop it with a sudden acceleration. Sprint cars move less than a dirt modified car but they still move up towards the wall.

    In my opinion he probably was trying to scare/intimidate the guy and the accident happened. He didn't mean to hit the guy but he did mean to bully/scare him by kicking the ass end of the car up the track. Spray the guy with some dirt or just make a point not to mess with him.

    Stewart's been coming to a local track by me almost every summer for years (Lebanon Valley). He was just here in July. I have friends that are a major sponsor for one of the best guys on the dirt modified series that have told me stories about Stewart. Plus I've seen his aggressive driving up close.

    The guy is relentless and an ultimate competitor. He's also a big shot bully that loves racing whether it be a pinewood derby car or a Sunday afternoon NASCAR.

    Is he culpable? Sure. Will he be charged? NO! If this fucking guy is one of the best drivers in the world he sure as heck wouldn't hit another human being as he's driving 35-40 MPH in a car that he's driven his whole life. If he wanted to clearly avoid the guy he would have. He wanted to get as close as he could to Ward and make a point in my opinion.

    Just my 2 cents.

    I think Ebe nailed it, I agree with this summary. As Ebe said, I think Stewart tried to scare/intimidate Ward and got closer to him than he wanted to. Here's the thing, if, and it's a big if, but if Stewart did indeed try to get close to Ward like most people think, then how does he live with himself? I mean he knows he intentionally tried to get close to him and got a little to close and killed him. Assuming Stewart has a conscience, I don't know how he just goes on with his life. Now, if this truly was an accident and Stewart honestly had no bad intention at all, then as horrible as it is to kill someone, at least Stewart would know he's innocent and it was 100% accidental, but if he knew exactly what he was doing, and it resulted in this guy's death, then I don't know how Stewart could live with himself knowing what happened, I know I couldn't, this would haunt me the rest of my life.
  • jammerjammer Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Sparks was a few cars behind Stewart:

    "From what I saw, Tony did everything in his power to turn down away from Kevin to avoid him," said sprint car driver Cory Sparks.

    Sparks was just a few cars behind Stewart during Saturday's race. He said videos that have been posted online do not give an accurate picture of what happened.

    "People say that they heard the engine rev up and he gassed it. In a sprint car, the only way to steer is you steer with the rear wheels as much as you do the steering wheel. In my opinion, what he did was he gassed it to turn down away from him," said Sparks.

    Sparks also said drivers are very limited with the amount they can see out of the right side of the car.

    "Kevin was wearing all-black. A black fire suit, a black helmet, which in normal situations isn't a big deal, they are to go with the colors of your car. It was tragic accident and a mistake was made," said Sparks.
  • StevenDrewStevenDrew Junior Member
    edited August 2014
    The guy that must have had some sort of expensive directional microphone to record a car hitting the accelerator all the way across the track.
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