Betting Talk

Stoffo Discussion Thread

Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
edited April 2013 in Sports Betting
All opinions, comments, suggestions are welcomed.
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Comments

  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    IMO it just looks way to easy to play unders when two pitchers from the top 20 are facing each other.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    It has shown a profit the past 5 years, Bucky has the numbers I can't seem to find them. I know 2010 was outstanding. That of course doesn't mean it's going to show a profit this year. I'll see if I can dig up those numbers tomorrow.
    I also failed to mention since there's so much inter-league they are not used.

    Bucky I misplace that thread with the exceptions also, coming off the DL list Etc: would mind please I'll make I cut/paste and copy.

    Thanks
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    I also failed to mention since there's so much inter-league they are not used.


    What I meant to say is since there's so much inter-league play thought out the year there will be less plays this year.
    It's getting late till tomorrow.
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Yeah OT--looks like we'll have the first Stoffo plays of the year tomorrow (Thurs)--the under in Det/Sea, and for sides--Milw, CWS, and StL (if they are a dog at Philly)--this is preliminary, and of course, may change if there are any pitching changes and/or drastic overnight line changes. By the way, I think Stoffo home dogs have been a profitable subset over the years, if I remember correctly, but I might have to do some research on that. Anyway BOL
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    OT: I found the post. The full game unders where profitable in 2010

    "OT--looking at some of my old Stoffo notes, I found this info regarding the 1st 5 innings:

    I find it interesting that playing the Stoffo unders for the first 5 innings would be disastrous compared to the full-game unders. I say that because the Stoffo unders are predicated on good starting pitching, and it seems somewhat logical to me that one of the concerns would be the bullpens giving up late inning runs when those "good" starters may have been removed from the game. Anyway, based upon lines from Pinny at the time of post, playing the Stoffo unders for the 1st 5 innings would be YTD: 63-57-5, -.69 units. As compared to the fullgame unders wich are: 77-45-3, +29.24 units.

    OT--this was posted at Sports Forum World (the old SFW) on 8/15/10. I realize that this was a small sample based on results only from April to Aug 15th, 2010"
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    underwraps wrote: »
    IMO it just looks way to easy to play unders when two pitchers from the top 20 are facing each other.
    Here are the Stoffo under results for the past 6 years:

    OT--for such an old fella your memory is quite good--(I, on the other hand, have a good memory--it's just short). The Stoffo unders were:

    2007--103-75-7
    2008--77-69-4
    2009--94-68-8
    2010--99-55-3
    2011--97-71-6
    2012--74-74-11
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    These are the Stoffo side results for the past 6 years:

    Stoffo sides over the past years have been:

    2007--180-225, -4.8 units
    2008--183-185, +30.51 units
    2009--195-236, -3.5 units
    2010--188-240, -14.20 units
    2010--189-204, +25.8 units
    2012--170-213, -21.5 units

    These numbers were calculated using Pinny lines at time of post, so some judicious line shopping would obviously generate in better results. (I know playing against my locals' lines ended up with much better results)
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Looks like 2012 wasn't such a good year compared to the past ones. I wonder what caused that.

    Edit for the totals
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    OT--Here are the pitcher specifics:

    Pitcher Specifics:

    1) Both starting pitchers must have made at least 3 starts. This is why the true system does not start until about the 15th game (or during the 3rd week) of the season.
    2) If a pitcher is coming off the DL, back from the minors, or off a trip to the bullpen, he must make at least 1 restart to requalify
    3) As long as a pitcher meets the 3 start, and other requirements, they qualify regardless of the number of innings pitched. these pitchers can be in either the "A", "B", or "C" list on the Sagarin daily ratings

    PS OT- I have always used the A-B and C Sagarin groups, and the results I posted earlier, were based upon those criteria. Also, after the All-Star break, the system goes on hiatus with the rest of MLB and pitchers must make 1 start before the system starts up again
  • underwrapsunderwraps Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Totals look better than sides. On the sides the criteria he uses to eliminate dogs is a little iffy especially 3 wins or losses and over +150 don't plays
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    underwraps wrote: »
    Totals look better than sides. On the sides the criteria he uses to eliminate dogs is a little iffy especially 3 wins or losses and over +150 don't plays
    One of the problems that I've always had with the Stoffo sides, is that, strictly going by the system, you'd play a team at +149 but not at +151. With the unders, it doesn't matter how low the number may be, if it's an under play, it's a play. Two years ago, it seemed like we played a few under 5.5s
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Thanks for everything, I saving this page right now as is. If I can (I have so much more going on now then I ever had working) I will add the sides also on the Play page. Thanks Again.
  • worm33worm33 Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    All opinions, comments, suggestions are welcomed.

    My opinion, is you are flipping coins with this.
  • tribecalledjefftribecalledjeff Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    worm33 wrote: »
    My opinion, is you are flipping coins with this.

    I agree with that.
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    worm33 wrote: »
    My opinion, is you are flipping coins with this.

    I also agree that the sides are basically coin flipping. Personally, I've had some success with the sides, early in the year (up until Memorial day) and late in the year (after August 1st). Also, betting the Stoffo home dogs (I'm looking for some data on those plays) In June and July I have had success selectively fading the Stoffo sides. I don't play the sides blindly, just when they match up with other factors that I use. As far as the unders, they are 544-412 over the last 6 years, 56.9%, and 270-200 for the last 3 years, 57.4%. If that's considered coin flipping, then I'm going to flip away.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    I respect your opinion Worm and tribe but it has had 4 successful years out of 6 on the Under only part. I won't count 2008 successful because of juice. Once again your opinion is well taken but can you elaborate on that opinion.
  • kdogkdog Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    worm33 wrote: »
    My opinion, is you are flipping coins with this.

    What no one seems to remember about this is that it was designed as a way to have some action over the summer while spending minimal time handicapping and yet still have a chance to make some, or at least not lose a lot, of money. I'd say that if you look at the results Bucky posted it has accomplished that goal, albeit with a few peaks & valleys. So you are right worm, it is flipping coins which is probably still better than 90% of baseball bettors could do on their own (present thread posters excepted of course) :)
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    kdog wrote: »
    What no one seems to remember about this is that it was designed as a way to have some action over the summer while spending minimal time handicapping and yet still have a chance to make some, or at least not lose a lot, of money. I'd say that if you look at the results Bucky posted it has accomplished that goal, albeit with a few peaks & valleys. So you are right worm, it is flipping coins which is probably still better than 90% of baseball bettors could do on their own (present thread posters excepted of course) :)

    Well said
  • rhinocerosrhinoceros Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    underwraps wrote: »
    "OT--looking at some of my old Stoffo notes, I found this info regarding the 1st 5 innings:

    I find it interesting that playing the Stoffo unders for the first 5 innings would be disastrous compared to the full-game unders. I say that because the Stoffo unders are predicated on good starting pitching, and it seems somewhat logical to me that one of the concerns would be the bullpens giving up late inning runs when those "good" starters may have been removed from the game. Anyway, based upon lines from Pinny at the time of post, playing the Stoffo unders for the 1st 5 innings would be YTD: 63-57-5, -.69 units. As compared to the fullgame unders wich are: 77-45-3, +29.24 units.

    OT--this was posted at Sports Forum World (the old SFW) on 8/15/10. I realize that this was a small sample based on results only from April to Aug 15th, 2010"

    I find this VERY disturbing. Like other posters here, I believe this helps confirm that the good results were largely good luck on a small sample.
  • CalculationCalculation Member
    edited April 2013
    It's fine if you want to use Stoffo as a tool for handicapping totals, but I would never follow this blindly, especially when you consider how soft this market is as opposed to other professional sports. Oddsmakers are going to adjust.

    Say you leaned under in a particular game & noticed it fits Stoffo, then maybe that would be enough for you to make a move. I'd certainly make sure YOUR handicapping points under before doing anything else.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    It's a starting point just like any other tool that's used when looking to make a play. Why do people automatically think it's anything else.
  • tribecalledjefftribecalledjeff Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    I respect your opinion Worm and tribe but it has had 4 successful years out of 6 on the Under only part. I won't count 2008 successful because of juice. Once again your opinion is well taken but can you elaborate on that opinion.

    The market has adjusted. You don't get the same value that you used to, it showed last year in the lines. What used to be under 6' was under 6 -120, what was once under 7 +100 was under 6' -115. We even saw 5', as BB said, and we wouldn't have seen as many prior to Stoffo. You can't just keep playing under a number regardless of what it is, even after the market catches up, and expect to come out ahead. It's too widely known at this point and it's baked in.
  • kdogkdog Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    It's a starting point just like any other tool that's used when looking to make a play. Why do people automatically think it's anything else.

    Everybody looking for the Promised Land OT.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    The market has adjusted. You don't get the same value that you used to, it showed last year in the lines. What used to be under 6' was under 6 -120, what was once under 7 +100 was under 6' -115. We even saw 5', as BB said, and we wouldn't have seen as many prior to Stoffo. You can't just keep playing under a number regardless of what it is, even after the market catches up, and expect to come out ahead. It's too widely known at this point and it's baked in.

    You taking as it's an automatic play which it isn't and even if people did play it blindly the Under has shown a profit. I'm sure you have but read it but post 18 is spot on. let me add it's just another thing to look and track to see if there's any value in it.
  • tribecalledjefftribecalledjeff Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    You taking as it's an automatic play which it isn't and even if people did play it blindly the Under has shown a profit. I'm sure you have but read it but post 18 is spot on. let me add it's just another thing to look and track to see if there's any value in it.

    You asked me to elaborate on my opinion. I think it's coin flipping and explained why. I don't think things that coin flip are useful or helpful in my handicapping in any way. If I lean towards an under in a given game, I'm not going to look towards a system that I think is 50/50 to guide me further. So I certainly wouldn't auto play them, and I wouldn't even use them as a method.

    I have been wrong more times than I can count, but I'd be shocked if this showed a profit this year. There are a lot of things that worked 2-4 years ago that will bury you today.

    Post #18 is indeed spot on. That "kdog" fella is pretty sharp.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Okay tribe so your a handicapper of baseball, now you bet K.City today why don't you enlighten us exactly how you arrived at that play. I would like to learn how to handicap a baseball game with the way baseball is played today missed calls every game pitchers pitching 5/6 innings I mean do you also look at who was used in the bullpen the night before and how many pitches they threw. You can't be looking at lineups your plays which I see everyday are up before the lineups are out. I've been in the casino business all my life and sometimes I wonder how do they keep the doors open. Stoffo Under is a proven winner with almost 1000 plays now I'm not saying that pass results will guaranteed future earnings.

    But you make these posts under the guise of wanting to help make people better at sports betting. Why don't you let the people decide for themselves. But it's an open forum and you have the right to say whatever you like within the guidelines of the forum But you come across like you know it all every time.
    I'm sure your aware most people just gamble for action and unless they are asked are probably not even interested.

    So without giving the store away how about a taste because I see your picks. If your just betting Pinny moves (Nothing wrong with that) that's not handicapping.
    Now I give you the opportunity to help everyone on the forum.
  • tribecalledjefftribecalledjeff Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    Okay tribe so your a handicapper of baseball, now you bet K.City today why don't you enlighten us exactly how you arrived at that play. I would like to learn how to handicap a baseball game with the way baseball is played today missed calls every game pitchers pitching 5/6 innings I mean do you also look at who was used in the bullpen the night before and how many pitches they threw. You can't be looking at lineups your plays which I see everyday are up before the lineups are out. I've been in the casino business all my life and sometimes I wonder how do they keep the doors open. Stoffo Under is a proven winner with almost 1000 plays now I'm not saying that pass results will guaranteed future earnings.

    But you make these posts under the guise of wanting to help make people better at sports betting. Why don't you let the people decide for themselves. But it's an open forum and you have the right to say whatever you like within the guidelines of the forum But you come across like you know it all every time.
    I'm sure your aware most people just gamble for action and unless they are asked are probably not even interested.

    So without giving the store away how about a taste because I see your picks. If your just betting Pinny moves (Nothing wrong with that) that's not handicapping.
    Now I give you the opportunity to help everyone on the forum.

    Buddy, you asked for my opinion and I gave it. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because I didn't agree with you.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    You missed the point, when you can a chance look up the word Teach and then look up the word Criticize
  • tribecalledjefftribecalledjeff Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    You missed the point, when you can a chance look up the word Teach and then look up the word Criticize

    A lot of times they are the same thing, my friend.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2013
    I just made $50 My buddy and I are having lunch and I showed him this thread and I said that you would post withing 10 minutes of my last post to get the last word in. We move on.
This discussion has been closed.