Betting Talk

Future of Offshore Gambling

JayJayOkochaJayJayOkocha Junior Member
edited May 2018 in Sports Betting
Been reading the main forums regarding this subject and it seems that there isnt any middle ground opinion across the whole betting spectrum
I would say the majority thinks ths will kill OS or at least hurt them a lot,and i tend to agree with this point of view due to the fact that the avg betting joe is not concerned about vig,etc
Having said that i would like to know some opinions here about the future of OS gambling
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Comments

  • jets96jets96 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    whoever has the lowest vig ill be there. I think a lot more care about the vig then you think, so much competition down the road, if my local lowers his vig say to -105 , am not driving to yonkers raceway and pay 5 cents more and why would i, how is gambling winnings going to be taxed ???
    Over 600 bucks on a lottery ticket you have to claim it...
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Offshore will be affected if half the country is able to bet which it is looking increasingly likely will be the case. But it is very unlikely that states will offer bonuses and such so the offshores will have an advantage in offering lower odds so they will still be around but it may be hard to be a smaller book.

    Might be able to get better bonuses from Bookmaker and BetOnline.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    You will also probably not be able to bet overnights in the US market so that will be another advantage the offshores will have.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    I think the people that really like to bet a lot will be betting largely offshore. The casual gambler will bet in the state casinos. Offshores will lose a lot of casual action but will keep its high volume gamblers. If you like to bet, you are going to want openers, overnights and bonuses and that will be tough competition for state-side casinos in addition to your getting booted at WH for winning $500.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    In the very long-term when gambling becomes 50 state and a major enterprise, I think you could see offshore go under except for the Big Four and you begin to maybe have major money in the market and possibly these high speed computer used by Wall Street and possibly odds that move before your eyes by the second. That will probably take decades but could happen sooner than people imagine.
  • danshandanshan Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    jets96 wrote: »
    whoever has the lowest vig ill be there. I think a lot more care about the vig then you think, so much competition down the road, if my local lowers his vig say to -105 , am not driving to yonkers raceway and pay 5 cents more and why would i, how is gambling winnings going to be taxed ???
    Over 600 bucks on a lottery ticket you have to claim it...
    probably the same way the tax thing, like at the horses on big winnings and also the juice, I cant imagine a book with state rules, taxes, cost of regulation, enforcement, blah blah and more being able to offer -104 lines
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    In the very long-term when gambling becomes 50 state and a major enterprise, I think you could see offshore go under except for the Big Four

    R40, how much of a credit line can you get from Uncle Sam's states? Offshore can compete versus the state's rake.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Ronbets wrote: »
    R40, how much of a credit line can you get from Uncle Sam's states? Offshore can compete versus the state's rake.

    I think in 20 years, you might be betting -105 in the states as it becomes more of a high volume computerized business. I don't think high taxes are going to hold. There is going to be massive lobbying by casino companies and the sports leagues.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Notice how the casino companies aren't saying a word about all these taxes. They don't care. They know how it is going to work out.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    How are state's bureaucrats gonna react to large minus pool runs? They don't understand the true meaning of gambling.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Ronbets wrote: »
    How are state's bureaucrats gonna react to large minus pool runs? They don't understand the true meaning of gambling.

    The casinos just need to have the lawmakers make the law. After that, they own them.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    The Highlights
    Legalized sports betting in the United States will disincentivize bettors from playing offshore.
    The majority of states have yet to address sports betting legislation.
    Offshore books will remain attractive due to high limits, line shopping and large varieties of sports and bet types offered.
    Now that the euphoria of the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn the federal ban on sports betting is waning, there are more questions than answers. One of the more popular topics for debate is what will happen to offshore sportsbooks now that bettors will presumably be able to wager within the United States.



    Here’s What New Jersey Can’t Mess Up After Legalizing Sports Betting



    According to Ryan Rodenberg, New Jersey is the only state (other than Nevada) with sports betting laws enacted. Seven other states have laws ready to be activated to allow sports betting.

    On the other hand, a whopping 27 states have done nothing to prepare for legalized sports betting. That means there’s a long road ahead for those expecting legalized sports betting to sweep across the country.

    Scott Cooley, an odds consultant for BetDSI, weighed in on the ramifications for offshore sportsbooks, “Certainly, more and more bettors will gravitate toward the local books, but in the interim, sports fans looking to get involved immediately will turn to the web.”

    From a high level, it makes sense that many not interested in wagering offshore will be more comfortable playing in a regulated local market. However, it’s unlikely that prospective bettors excited by the Supreme Court’s ruling will simply run offshore in order to immediately get involved.

    In the near future, offshore betting will remain status quo until states, especially those with the largest populations, begin accepting legal sports wagers.

    So what about the long term for offshore sports betting?

    “Offshore books such as BetDSI that almost exclusively cater to U.S. clientele will always have a place in the industry because there will always be a sector of gamblers that wish to remain anonymous and/or shop for the best odds,” Cooley said.

    While the specifics regarding regulation will certainly have an effect, it’s difficult to foresee any scenario in which offshore sportsbooks disappear completely. Bettors, especially winners wagering large amounts, will always be looking for more outs and places to get down to shop for the best possible odds and/or reduced juice.

    Even in Nevada, offshore sportsbooks such as Pinnacle and Bookmaker are attractive for professional bettors because of the limits they’ll accept compared to those set by brick-and-mortar casinos.

    In addition, the variety of betting options, between niche sports (such as auto racing, tennis, eSports, etc.) and props available offshore will always entice enough bettors to keep them relevant.

    I just don't think it will effect Las Vegas much at all. Opening all these Casinos around the states created more gamblers and we still break records every year. Maybe it all comes down to how each state handles it. It may take some of the smaller bettors but I don't it will matter in the long run.

    This is Copy/Paste like guys that know me wouldn't have known.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    I think in 20 years, you might be betting -105 in the states as it becomes more of a high volume computerized business.

    Wishful thinking. Maybe if all the states commingled. You know that's not gonna happen. Bureaucrats lowering taxes? More wishful thinking.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    This is Copy/Paste like guys that know me wouldn't have known.

    You had me fooled shift boss:coolsign:
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Ronbets wrote: »
    Wishful thinking. Maybe if all the states commingled. You know that's not gonna happen. Bureaucrats lowering taxes? More wishful thinking.

    You cannot offer betting at more than -110 odds. It will not work. That is the standard.

    I don't have any wishes. The push for lower odds is going to be a natural part of the process. If you want to bet on how things are going to work, bet on the money. The casinos are the ones with the money and they will win in the end.

    Mississippi voted for sports betting without even knowing it. That's the kind of power casino money brings.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    You cannot offer betting at more than -110 odds. It will not work. That is the standard.

    I don't have any wishes. The push for lower odds is going to be a natural part of the process. If you want to bet on how things are going to work, bet on the money. The casinos are the ones with the money and they will win in the end.

    Mississippi voted for sports betting without even knowing it. That's the kind of power casino money brings.

    I hope your right but in today's gambling world it's not about volume anymore it's about how much will these suckers lay to bet a ballgame from there house or a short drive away. If it was something other how come Las Vegas doesn't offer half the things off shore does and how come no reduced juice. they know how much money is bet offshore.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    I hope your right but in today's gambling world it's not about volume anymore it's about how much will these suckers lay to bet a ballgame from there house or a short drive away. If it was something other how come Las Vegas doesn't offer half the things off shore does and how come no reduced juice. they know how much money is bet offshore.

    US sports betting is going to be massive. Vegas is largely irrelevant. That is just the basic model. It is going to get off to a bumpy start but in the end, you will have Wall Street involved. They already do this stuff through options trading. They are going to want to get in. You can trade stocks for $5 now and even for free.

    There will be a lot of big talk about taxes. We got the lottery in Texas with big talk about money going to schools and no money goes to schools. The lottery is here to stay though.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Also consider that offshore books lose 40% or more of deposits to processing problems. US books are going to lose 0%.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Another thing you are likely to see in the gambling market is the classic race to the bottom. You will start with each state having their own laws. Then Congress will say, we really need to straighten this out. And then all the gambling companies will incorporate in the same state and do business out of that state.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    Bottom line is we are living in the gambling stone age and we are about to enter the modern era like Rip Van Winkle. This thing is already off and running. The politicians think they have some control over it, but this monster is about to run rampant.
  • JayJayOkochaJayJayOkocha Junior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    Bottom line is we are living in the gambling stone age and we are about to enter the modern era like Rip Van Winkle. This thing is already off and running. The politicians think they have some control over it, but this monster is about to run rampant.

    So chasing steam will be impossible in 5 years or so you reckon?
  • lakemonsterlakemonster Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    Bottom line is we are living in the gambling stone age and we are about to enter the modern era like Rip Van Winkle. This thing is already off and running. The politicians think they have some control over it, but this monster is about to run rampant.

    no offense, but you are slightly delusional in your expectations. nothing that includes government involvement takes off like a rocket ship - New Jersey is already pumping the breaks
  • billymacbillymac Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    Also consider that offshore books lose 40% or more of deposits to processing problems. US books are going to lose 0%.
    Not sure where you got this, as well. You couldn't be more wrong.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    no offense, but you are slightly delusional in your expectations. nothing that includes government involvement takes off like a rocket ship - New Jersey is already pumping the breaks

    We'll have to see. I was a pessimist. Didn't think it would happen in 5 years. Happened in 6 months. Now as many as 32 states will be gambling on sports in 5 years. Even West Virginia and Mississippi joining after a couple of days. It's already speeding ahead.

    It is easy to keep Costa Rican books down. US books worth billions in market cap with a wide-open playing field, advertising, easy deposits and withdrawals are going to be unstoppable.

    You think things will always be the same as they are now. It's a bit like looking at YouTube and Ebay for the first time.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    So chasing steam will be impossible in 5 years or so you reckon?

    Can you chase steam now? Don't think there is going to be any steam chasing. Listened to a couple of moron touts that talked about how they would bet -7 on the Eagles in New York and +9.5 on the Giants in Philadelphia on the same game. Yeah, right.
  • lakemonsterlakemonster Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    We'll have to see. I was a pessimist. Didn't think it would happen in 5 years. Happened in 6 months. Now as many as 32 states will be gambling on sports in 5 years. Even West Virginia and Mississippi joining after a couple of days. It's already speeding ahead.

    It is easy to keep Costa Rican books down. US books worth billions in market cap with a wide-open playing field, advertising, easy deposits and withdrawals are going to be unstoppable.

    You think things will always be the same as they are now. It's a bit like looking at YouTube and Ebay for the first time.

    it didn't happen in 5 years, you're right. it definitely didn't happen in 6 mos. PASPA was originally challenged in court in 2009 -- so it actually took 9 years.

    your reality is based on hope & dreams. remember when NJ and Nevada and Delaware got online poker? -- that was supposed to take off like a rocket ship too...
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    it didn't happen in 5 years, you're right. it definitely didn't happen in 6 mos. PASPA was originally challenged in court in 2009 -- so it actually took 9 years.

    your reality is based on hope & dreams. remember when NJ and Nevada and Delaware got online poker? -- that was supposed to take off like a rocket ship too...

    I live in Texas. I have no hopes or dreams. I know what happens when you throw billions of dollars at an open market. Gambling on sports is no longer illegal in the United States. The rate of uptake on this is already shocking. I don't think you have any idea what happens when you throw hundreds of millions at a problem and there are billions on the line. All the casino companies need is their foot in the door.
  • lakemonsterlakemonster Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    R40 wrote: »
    I live in Texas. I have no hopes or dreams. I know what happens when you throw billions of dollars at an open market. Gambling on sports is no longer illegal in the United States. The rate of uptake on this is already shocking. I don't think you have any idea what happens when you throw hundreds of millions at a problem and there are billions on the line. All the casino companies need is their foot in the door.

    when you throw big $ around, everyone involved has their hand out wanting a cut...

    State governments and potentially the federal government are going to want to charge a heavy cover charge for those casino companies to get in the door. the government is still the gatekeeper until legislation is passed at the state levels and then signed by a govenor. legislation does not happen quickly or easily.
  • R40R40 Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    when you throw big $ around, everyone involved has their hand out wanting a cut...

    State governments and potentially the federal government are going to want to charge a heavy cover charge for those casino companies to get in the door. the government is still the gatekeeper until legislation is passed at the state levels and then signed by a govenor. legislation does not happen quickly or easily.

    No, I have described what would happen in 20 years. Not next year. You've got half the states ready to go in some form or fashion. It is not going to take long for the dominoes to fall.

    A crappy company like BWIN is worth 1.4 billion. How much is the top US sports book company going to be worth? The states want in. Some will stay out but they will not be able to ignore the revenues when they know full well their voters want to bet. All the stigma is going to go away and it is just going to be about money. And these casino companies are going to buy a lot of access and have huge lobbying power.
  • chuckhchuckh Senior Member
    edited May 2018
    I think casinos tied to Vegas will be the first true shops to open sports betting. The Indian casinos probably next. Parlay cards may be offered in convenience stores like lottery tickets are sold now. I do not think it will hurt offshore business who offer a lot more than just numbers and totals. The parlay cards will be with horrible odds. The states will cater to unsophisticated public.
    Just my opinion
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