Betting Talk

Your baseball Mount Rushmore

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  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitey_Ford

    236-106 2.75 ERA Cy Young World Seriers MVP 10X All star
    In all fairness in those days they had 2 all start games a year can't remember for how long or when it stop but I remember.

    No doubt WFord was one of the greatest Yankee pitchers ever. I saw him on the downside of his career. For short term dominance, I'd go with "Gator Guidry" who was virtually unhittable during the stretch. My personal choice would be Mel Stottlemyre. His #s aren't remotely close to WF's but let's remember he pitched in a dismal Yankee era and was a righty in Yankee stadium. Hanging sinkerballs were few and far between. The Tom Tresh experiment at SS was made to keep him on the roster.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Ronbets wrote: »
    No doubt WFord was one of the greatest Yankee pitchers ever. I saw him on the downside of his career. For short term dominance, I'd go with "Gator Guidry" who was virtually unhittable during the stretch. My personal choice would be Mel Stottlemyre. His #s aren't remotely close to WF's but let's remember he pitched in a dismal Yankee era and was a righty in Yankee stadium. Hanging sinkerballs were few and far between. The Tom Tresh experiment at SS was made to keep him on the roster.

    Funny I had Louisanna Lighting and Ford and went with Ford. But Guidry that tall string bean was something else. Didn't know tresh played anything but left and then my man Yogi took over. I close my eyes and can see Yogi at the plate the way he would swing the bat and swing at everything. Love watching him play. Thanks for the memories Ron and kane
  • babaorileybabaoriley Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Ronbets wrote: »
    Baba, Would Pascual Perez be on your list if he had a GPS device?
    Would that make his baseball cards worth anything? If so, it would certainly help his case. He was a true character, I'll give him that. His pickoff attempts were the stuff of legend and he was the "#2 guy" behind Rick Mahler for quite a few years. Actually, that just depresses me more. Rick Mahler was our "Ace" for a healthy chunk of the '80s. I'll be back in a bit guys. Just going to huff some paint in my garage while my car is running...
  • StackAttackStackAttack Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Im interested in who people here would think the 4 greatest SPs of all time are. Its an almost impossible list to make IMO.
  • BetThemDogsBetThemDogs Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Im interested in who people here would think the 4 greatest SPs of all time are. Its an almost impossible list to make IMO.

    By SP you mean Short Pitchers, right?
  • StackAttackStackAttack Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    yes. those under 5'10"
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Im interested in who people here would think the 4 greatest SPs of all time are. Its an almost impossible list to make IMO.

    I'll grit my teeth and say Roger Clemons would be one of them. Lefty Carlton, only if he and few more dominating years like he had in Philly.
  • BetThemDogsBetThemDogs Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    yes. those under 5'10"

    That midget for the White Sox-- was he a pitcher, or just a PH?
  • StackAttackStackAttack Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    I think he just recorded that one AB. postage stamp strike zone guy i think was his name.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Eddie Gadell
  • worm33worm33 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    What's up with all the Mariano love? Guy pitched 70 innings a year, 1 inning at a time. I would guess he's not in the top 20 most valuable Yankees of all time.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    worm33 wrote: »
    What's up with all the Mariano love? Guy pitched 70 innings a year, 1 inning at a time. I would guess he's not in the top 20 most valuable Yankees of all time.

    He pitched in time when the closer pitched 0ne inning at a time. He would pitch 1 1/3 when asked and also 2 innings when asked. That's why it's hard to compare and make best of all time SP, Relievers, Position players that played in different era's but in his he was the best. One pitch knew what it was and still couldn't hit it consistently and he has the most saves ever. I lived in a time when a reliever pitched 3 innings and sometimes more. That's why Francisco Rodriquez all time most saves in a season (62) is the biggest joke ever
  • jammerjammer Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Ronbets wrote: »
    I'll grit my teeth and say Roger Clemons would be one of them. Lefty Carlton, only if he and few more dominating years like he had in Philly.

    Still hard to believe he won 27 games in 1972 when the Phillies were 59-97. He was a great pitcher, too bad he held on a little too long.
    He was 40 when he left Philly with great numbers. 294-176, 2.80 ERA and won 62% of his games. 118 games over .500 for a lousy team.
    When he retired he was 329-244, 3.22 ERA, and won 57% of his games and finished only 85 games over .500. Still great #'s though.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    jammer wrote: »
    Still hard to believe he won 27 games in 1972 when the Phillies were 59-97. He was a great pitcher, too bad he held on a little too long.
    He was 40 when he left Philly with great numbers. 294-176, 2.80 ERA and won 62% of his games. 118 games over .500 for a lousy team.
    When he retired he was 329-244, 3.22 ERA, and won 57% of his games and finished only 85 games over .500. Still great #'s though.

    Just sold his Topps Basebal Card 1965 Rookie Card becket Graded 8 for close to $300
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    worm33 wrote: »
    What's up with all the Mariano love? Guy pitched 70 innings a year, 1 inning at a time. I would guess he's not in the top 20 most valuable Yankees of all time.

    I strongly disagree. I wont even get into his remarkable regular season career, go and take a look at his postseason numbers, then come back and tell me 20 Yankees more valuable than Rivera
  • paid03paid03 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    kane wrote: »
    I strongly disagree. I wont even get into his remarkable regular season career, go and take a look at his postseason numbers, then come back and tell me 20 Yankees more valuable than Rivera

    Rivera is the best closer of all-time. It's not really an argument.
  • paid03paid03 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Im interested in who people here would think the 4 greatest SPs of all time are. Its an almost impossible list to make IMO.

    According to WAR/game started:

    1. Pedro Martinez
    2. Lefty Grove
    3. Roger Clemens
    4. Randy Johnson
    5. Clayton Kershaw

    I went with 5 to make it a rotation.
  • paid03paid03 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Im interested in who people here would think the 4 greatest SPs of all time are. Its an almost impossible list to make IMO.

    Iron man top-5 (4,000+ innings by WAR/GS):

    1. Roger Clemens
    2. Randy Johnson
    3. Walter Johnson
    4. Christy Mathewson
    5. Cy Young
  • paid03paid03 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Total career WAR:

    SP:
    Roger Clemens 133.6
    Runner-up: Cy Young 131.5

    Reliever:
    Mariano Rivera 39.3
    Runner-up: Goose Gossage 29.1

    Hitter:
    Babe Ruth 168.4
    Runner-up: Barry Bonds 164.4
    Fielding (new stats):

    Overall runs saved:
    Adrian Beltre 154.9
    Runner-up: Carl Crawford 123.2

    Runs saved scaled to avg chances per season:
    Juan Lagares 26.0
    Runner-up: Andrelton Simmons 22.2
  • Brooklyn32Brooklyn32 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Dodgers Mt. Rushmore: Koufax, Robinson, Reese and Drysdale
  • worm33worm33 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    kane wrote: »
    I strongly disagree. I wont even get into his remarkable regular season career, go and take a look at his postseason numbers, then come back and tell me 20 Yankees more valuable than Rivera

    I oversold him. 21 hitters alone with higher career WAR as a Yankee. Mo is the best reliever of all time. He was a reliever. People talk about starters not winning the MVP because they only take the ball once every 5 days. Starters pitch 3-4 times what mo pitched every year.
  • BayOceanBayOcean Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    KOUFAX-NOLAN RYAN-RANDY JOHNSON-FELIX HERNANDEZ
    *This stat will NEVER be repeated, unbelieveable, unbeatable pitching feat in 1938 Johnny Van Deer Meer pitched 2 consecutive no hitters!
  • cpech56cpech56 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    Cardinals Mount Rushmore:
    Ozzie Smith
    Stan Musial
    Rogers Horsby
    Bob Gibson
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    worm33 wrote: »
    I oversold him. 21 hitters alone with higher career WAR as a Yankee. Mo is the best reliever of all time. He was a reliever. People talk about starters not winning the MVP because they only take the ball once every 5 days. Starters pitch 3-4 times what mo pitched every year.

    I don't care what his WAR is, you said there were 20 Yankees more valuable than Rivera. The bottom line is if a position player has a bad game and doesn't perform well, the Yankees can still win the game, if Rivera has a bad game and doesn't perform well, the Yankees will lose the game. Pitching the ninth with a one run lead in the playoffs and getting the save makes him as valuable as anyone on the team.
  • worm33worm33 Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    kane wrote: »
    I don't care what his WAR is, you said there were 20 Yankees more valuable than Rivera. The bottom line is if a position player has a bad game and doesn't perform well, the Yankees can still win the game, if Rivera has a bad game and doesn't perform well, the Yankees will lose the game. Pitching the ninth with a one run lead in the playoffs and getting the save makes him as valuable as anyone on the team.

    What's the difference between the 3rd inning and the 9th?
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    worm33 wrote: »
    What's the difference between the 3rd inning and the 9th?

    Well, if a pitcher gives up a run or two in the third, the game goes on and that team still has time to win the game, if a pitcher gives up a run or two in the ninth, the game is lost. Rivera has no room for error, if he gives up a run, he failed at his job and his team loses, if a position player goes 0-3, he can still make up for it in his fourth at bat, Rivera has only one opportunity to get the job done and if he fails, his team loses, he's as valuable as anyone on the team. You can think Rivera isn't one of the four greatest Yankees of all time, that's fine, but you used the word valuable, which changes things imo. I think Mariano Rivera was just as valuable if not more, than anyone on those Yankees teams. If Derek Jeter goes 0-4 with an error, he had a bad game, but his team can still win, if Mariano Rivera gives up three hits and two runs, he also had a bad game, but his team will lose because of it.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    worm33 wrote: »
    What's the difference between the 3rd inning and the 9th?

    In this instance.........finality
  • kdogkdog Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    paid03 wrote: »
    Fielding (new stats):

    Overall runs saved:
    Adrian Beltre 154.9
    Runner-up: Carl Crawford 123.2

    Runs saved scaled to avg chances per season:
    Juan Lagares 26.0
    Runner-up: Andrelton Simmons 22.2

    i can't imagine there isn't some type of formulaic error in that stat.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited April 2015
    kdog wrote: »
    i can't imagine there isn't some type of formulaic error in that stat.

    I seen that this morning and really laugh.
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