Betting Talk

2015 USMNT Soccer Discussion

TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
edited October 2015 in Sports Betting
Another big year on the horizon for the US Men (though obviously not quite like 2014 with the World Cup). Camp is underway for the January friendlies (with an extremely young squad), the CONCACAF U20 tourney is underway (US is 1-1-1 right now with 2 more group stage games left, the key is to finish out these last two games strong to finish top 3 in the group, and then win a knockout game against a team from the other group to make the U20 world cup), and a big tourney this summer in the Gold Cup (where a win gives us a berth in the 2017 Confed Cup).

Anyways, scuttlebutt here today is that Philly will host the Gold Cup final at the end of July. Most were assuming it would be in the Meadowlands with Philly hosting a quarterfinal or semifinal, but that's not what the rumor mill is saying today. I'd be thrilled being this close to Philly and would certainly be in attendance. Bad news is that with the way things have been going for me, the chances of the US getting upset before the final would increase dramatically.

And here is the link to last year's discussion if you'd like to look back and relive the memories (and dumb predictions I'm sure) -> http://www.bettingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/176042-2014-USMNT-Soccer-Thread
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Comments

  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited January 2015
    Forgot to mention the Mix and Jozy news. Thrilled that Jozy finally found somewhere else to get out of Sunderland. Would have obviously preferred that he stay in Europe at somewhere like France or back to the Netherlands, but at least he'll finally see the field every week. Anything is better than what's happened the past two years.
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited January 2015
    Big game for the U-20's this afternoon against T&T. Lose it and we're missing out on the World Cup this summer. Win or draw and we'll have an all or nothing game on Saturday to determine our fate. I've watched every minute of the first 4 games and this team has really been a mixed bag. Good ball control, some nice individual efforts, play pretty smart, etc, however we're struggled finishing (outside of the laugher against Aruba). This team is still pretty likely to advance to New Zealand, however one more slip up and we're sitting home (which would be pretty bad for the development of this age group, need to make it through). I really like what I've seen from Romain Gall, he'll be a contributor for the USMNT some day. Also like the future of Hyndman, Tommy Thompson, and Jamieson. Tough to tell too much about the back since they haven't been asked to do a whole lot through 4 games.
  • Obi OneObi One Senior Member
    edited February 2015
    Didn't see the game, but this is one hell of a snipershot
    http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/02/09/michael-bradley-goal-corner-kick-video/
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited February 2015
    Obi One wrote: »
    Didn't see the game, but this is one hell of a snipershot
    http://www.totalprosports.com/2015/02/09/michael-bradley-goal-corner-kick-video/

    Here's a cool overhead view of it...

    http://gfycat.com/SnoopyBoldCalf
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    Time to get this thread going again (or maybe it'll just be me and Goats talking to each other, guess we'll see, but hopefully some others chime in). Lots to talk about with all of the international soccer being played right now (US youth teams playing in both the Toulon tournament and the U20 World Cup at the moment, and the senior side with two friendlies in the next week and a half, and that's not even getting into the Women as they head to the World Cup). I'll post some thoughts here on everything that's happening right now.

    USMNT - The biggest thing that I took from the roster announcement, even though he's since been removed from the squad due to injury, is the fact that Jermaine Jones is again listed as a midfielder, and that Jurgen said "He's going to be back in midfield because of the fact that we have so many high-quality center-backs. With the discovery of Ventura Alvarado who won the CONCACAF Champions League with Club America, we think we have a very strong and stable back line and we don't need Jermaine in the center-back role." I'm very happy with this move, as I don't think that Jones was all that great of a CB, but he's still one of the better players in the pool (if not the best) at defensive midfield. I'm fine with some combo of Brooks, Besler, Gonzo, Orozco, and Cameron (and maybe Alvarado as I see him more) playing CB (though with JK leaving a healthy Besler and Gonzo off the squad, who knows where they fall in the pool right now). I see that Shea is still listed as a defender, which I really hate (I just don't get why we're looking at Shea as a defender and Fabian Johnson as a midfielder when it seems obvious to me that their natural positions are where they'd been all along). Sucks that Jozy is out, but gives another opportunity to look at Johannsson, Zardes, and Agudelo.

    Toulon Tourney - Three games in the book now in France for what would have to be considered about a "B" version of what will be the U23 Olympic team. It's kinda a strange tourney, as we've got one of (if not the) oldest squads there (we've got a bunch of 22 and 21 year olds, while some of the other teams are almost all 19 and 20). However, we've got a bunch of guys that would be starting at this age group that aren't there due to injury or failure to be released by their club (Trapp, Gil, Flores, Morales). And I've also think that a few guys from the U20 World Cup team will fit into the Olympic side (Hyndman and Rubin especially). Plus come the Olympics, we'd also get Yedlin and Brooks back. Anyways, this tourney isn't a complete waste as we're still seeing guys like Julian Green, Jordan Morris, O'Neill, Cropper, Pelosi, Packwood, and Joya. I've overall been pretty disappointed through 3 games. The bright spot for me has been Jordan Morris, as he looks like he could really have a future with the national team (I wasn't convinced, even with the goal against Mexico which was flukey). Julian Green has shown flashes, but seeing him here makes me wonder what JK was thinking taking him to Brazil last summer (or makes me wonder if the rumors of a promised roster spot in exchange for him coming to the US was true). I really don't see this generation giving us a GK, as Cropper just isn't that good (should we make the Olympics, I really think we'd use one of the 3 overage spots on a goalie). Packwood is an interesting player, as he seems like a pretty solid defender, but also offered something in the attack yesterday when we needed a goal and were out of strikers. We really did play a great game to beat the Netherlands, however we looked completely lost in the first 20 minutes against France (some of which was on Packwood), and we really should have at least gotten a draw from Costa Rica.

    U20 - It was a pretty ugly game against Myanmar and we should have certainly done better than a 2-1 win, however I do really like some of the individual parts from this team. The guy that really surprised me as Maki Tall, I thought he played really well and looked dangerous (was pretty surprised that he was subbed off as early as he was). Hyndman and Rubin were both good as expected I thought, and I see both of them making an impact at the international level as soon as this coming cycle (they've impressed me more than Brooks or Yedlin did at this point in their careers). Seeing Zalelam play, I can really see the potential there, but he's another one that will have to find a club situation where he can play a lot of minutes (and also needs to add some size as he grows as he's too easily pushed off the ball right now). I also liked the way Matt Miazga looked. I've only seen him play once in the MLS and he didn't make me think anything one way or another, but he looked like someone that can make an impact down the road. Tonight should be a good test, we've got a big talent edge over New Zealand, however it'll be the toughest environment that these kids have ever played in, and they'll need to step it up and play better than they did on Friday (or at least take better advantage of the possession and take care of the ball in the final third).

    Anyways, enough rambling. Anyone else have any thoughts?
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited June 2015
    TommyL wrote: »
    Time to get this thread going again (or maybe it'll just be me and Goats talking to each other, guess we'll see, but hopefully some others chime in).
    TommyL wrote: »
    Anyways, enough rambling. Anyone else have any thoughts?

    My first thought was that I agreed with that first thought. :)

    I started to respond, but realized I was mostly just agreeing with the points you made. Maybe someone else will chime in.
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    Goats wrote: »
    My first thought was that I agreed with that first thought. :)

    I started to respond, but realized I was mostly just agreeing with the points you made. Maybe someone else will chime in.

    I'm getting up to watch tonight's game live. Want to share your thoughts tonight, or should we wait till the morning? :)
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    TommyL wrote: »
    The guy that really surprised me as Maki Tall, I thought he played really well and looked dangerous (was pretty surprised that he was subbed off as early as he was).

    And my "Josh Gatt curse" strikes again. Tall is injured with some type of foot injury, out tonight, and could be done for the tourney. Though it now makes sense as to why he was subbed off.
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited June 2015
    TommyL wrote: »
    I'm getting up to watch tonight's game live. Want to share your thoughts tonight, or should we wait till the morning? :)

    I had a screwy night's sleep but was never planning to watch it live anyway. Feel free to post whenever you prefer. I just won't be checking the thread until after I watch it later this morning.

    While I'm writing, I usually avoid posting stuff like "tough loss with the Myanmar under after the scoreless 1H" but if I had bothered with a lengthy response earlier, I was actually going to say I thought Myanmar deserved some credit for overcoming the talent and size differential vs. the US by being aggressive and fouling a lot. Obviously I thought we should have won by more, but after watching Ukraine just beat the living crap out of them in the 2H, it's making me think it was an even worse performance by the US than I first thought.

    P.S. Good job getting Tall hurt. I'll check back in a few hours.
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited June 2015
    Crazy how different teams can look from one game to the next, although not uncommon I guess, and probably even less so given the age group. From a team standpoint, I thought the US just dominated in every aspect. After last night, not sure which of this group's game ones seems stranger, the US struggling to beat Myanmar or NZ holding Ukraine to a 0-0 draw. Anyway, my thoughts on some individual players...

    Rubin - The class of the team along with Hyndman. He seems to be the whole package. He obviously can score (though last night's were gimmes), he has the one-on-one skills, but perhaps most impressive has been his vision and ability to link up with other players in front of the goal. Forget the goals, he could easily have several assists.

    Hyndman - He reminds me a bit of Bradley. He's not flashy nor the fastest player on the field, but is extremely solid and composed, great passer, great vision, and obviously has no problem finishing either.

    Zelalem - He really showed flashes of what I had mostly only read about. I saw vision, one-on-one skills (great nutmeg on that one play), and even the ability to hold the ball when pressured. I really hope he finds playing time at the club level, wherever that may be. I'm not ready to anoint him as a can't miss future full national team member, but he certainly seems to have the potential that's been hyped.

    Jamieson - He looked good stepping in for Tall (who I was also impressed with vs. Myanmar), but I have a feeling he gets the job done with athleticism more than technical skill, which is fine, but can only take you so far. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut says he might turn out to be one of those good MLS forwards who isn't quite international-caliber (also my current take on Zardes, who one could easily compare him to given that they're teammates with a similar penchant for bad dye jobs).

    Steffan - Tough to judge a keeper on a short body of work and limited saves, but so far I like what I see (yes, he could have dealt with the corner that led to Myanmar's goal better, but all keepers make mistakes, let alone 20 year-olds). I was already planning to mention him before he made the one nice diving save and low diving punch on the cross in the final 10 minutes, so it was nice to see those plays as well. In general though, he just strikes me as smooth and confident for whatever reason. By comparison, Cropper looked pretty shaky in Toulon. Yelling a lot does not equate to being confident nor a leader in the back.

    Carter-Vickers - Tough for me to say much about defenders since NZ was far from threatening, but he did everything he was supposed to on defense and even could have scored. I look forward to seeing more from him based on what I've read. As we know, we're not exactly lacking in young CB's right now, but you can never have too many players at any position.

    Look forward to anyone else's thoughts (or more likely the continuation of the ongoing Tommy/Goats private conversation).

    Time to watch US/Qatar from Toulon.
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    Just woke up and got a little work done, and getting ready to watch the Toulon game on DVR. My thoughts from last night...

    First off, that Ukraine 2nd half was a shocker to me. Though Ukraine did outplay them in the 1st half, I never got the sense that they were that much better or that the floodgates were going to open. Suddenly, once they put in that first goal, it looked like a totally different game and Ukraine really could have put up 8 or 9 goals. I don't know what to take exactly from the competition in this group. New Zealand actually had a great chance to beat Ukraine and was certainly deserving of the draw (and I played Ukraine in that game expecting them to be the much better team). But last night, Ukraine looked to be on a completely different level than New Zealand. Will be interesting to see how we match up with them on Thursday night (or Friday morning by the time most get around to watching it).

    As for our game, we looked really, really good. I've had some high hopes for this age group as we have a lot of guys that could be future stars or impact players, and that only increased when we got Zelalem. I'll do the same as Goats and run down guys that I have thoughts on...

    Steffen - I do think that he'll contribute to the USMNT down the road (especially with the lack of other options that I really like in the 20-25 age range. He had a few shaky decisions when I think he trusted himself too much and played around the with ball at his feet rather than getting it out of there, but that should be corrected with experience. He's got all the physical tools, good instincts, generally distributes the ball pretty well, etc. He's still only 20, but seeing him play actually makes me wonder if he could pass Cropper in the Olympic pecking order.

    Carter-Vickers - He's got a really bright future. When I watch him play out there, I forget how young he actually is (still only 17, and is so young that he'll even be eligible for the 2020 Olympic team). I'll get way ahead of myself and predict that he'll be a cornerstone of our 2022 and 2026 World Cup teams (and he'll still only be 28 in 2026).

    Matt Miazga - Wasn't quite as impressed with him last night, but he still brings that physical presence and reminds me of a guy like Gooch or Gonzo in that we won't want him isolated in space, but he'll be dangerous on corners and dominate in the air in our own box.

    Paul Arriola - Surprised that Goats didn't mention him. He was a very pleasant surprise last night and it's the best game that I've seen him play. There were a couple of plays early in the game where New Zealand was countering on us and you just saw a blur in a US jersey coming back to defend and break up the play, and both times it was Arriola. He also had a couple of really nice strikes in the first half, he has a very heavy shot from distance and does a nice job keeping the ball low. With how good of a game he played, I was glad to see him rewarded with a goal late.

    Emerson Hyndman - One of the two guys (along with Rubin) that I could see on the Gold Cup squad this summer. Poised on the ball, nice job tracking back, good finisher, etc. Another guy with a bright future.

    Rubio Rubin - I'm kinda hitting the point where I think he has a better than 50/50 shot to make the Gold Cup (especially with the expanded rosters). Watching him play makes me forget that he's only 19. I feel like we've had other guys make a big impact up top at the same age (Agudelo, Jozy, etc), but they got a lot of it done with physical ability while Rubin has a lot more technical ability at the same age. He was the best player on the field last night, and I really look forward to watching him play again on Thursday. If he was in Toulon right now, I think he'd be the best attacking option on the field for us (he's better right now than some of the older guys like Julian Green and Jordan Morris.

    Bradford Jamieson - I like the Zardes comparison. I'm not sure where he'll head exactly, but he does remind me more of the type of strikers or attacking midfielders we usually have, who get it done early in their career with speed and physical skills but can be marked out of a game when stepping up in competition.

    Tommy Thompson - I liked him a lot in qualifying last year, but I don't see his ceiling being nearly as high as some of the others I've mentioned. I could see him having a career like a Conor Casey or Kenny Cooper, or even like a poor man's Hercules Gomez or Brian Ching (ie, will get some caps and maybe even contribute in some qualifiers, but he's not a guy that I'll probably want ever seeing meaningful minutes in a World Cup game).

    Gedion Zelalem - Everything that I ever dreamed of with him was on display last night. He's unlike any player that we've ever had in a US jersey, and is kinda the guy that I thought Freddy Adu would become in terms of his ball control. When he's in traffic, it looks like he has the ball on a string. I don't ever remember seeing a US player put that many opponents on their backs or off balance when dribbling the ball. His ability to control the ball in traffic, change direction, play the ball in space to himself, etc are all things that I don't remember seeing. He's still way too small, and I didn't really see anything from him in terms of tracking back on defense. I don't even know who to compare him to outside of Adu since he's the only guy with a similar skill-set that I can recall, but most would probably see that as a knock on Zelalem based upon where Adu has landed (like I said, he could be everything that I thought Adu could become). He's not going to be a 2-way player like a Michael Bradley or Claudio Reyna from what I've seen in 2 games, however he brings a dynamic that we've been sorely lacking for a long time. I couldn't be more excited about his future, just hoping that he can follow it up again with another strong performance on Thursday. That pass to Arriola for the 3rd goal was world class, weighting the ball that perfectly in traffic.

    Not a lot of negatives from last night, but I'll be interested to see what Ukraine presents us as they're clearly the strongest team that we'll play in the group stage.
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited June 2015
    TommyL wrote: »
    Paul Arriola - Surprised that Goats didn't mention him.

    Part oversight, part not wanting to go down the entire roster between laziness and not wanting to write a novel like some of my e-mails to you turn out. :) I also probably had a list of guys already in my head for one reason or another (prior knowledge or expectations mostly) and since he wasn't on it I failed to comment.

    I agree he looked good.

    While I'm adding comments on additional players, my original comments on Miazga after the Myanmar game were going to include the fact that he may have looked especially good b/c he was out-heading guys he had 8+ inches on. I don't blame him for complaining about all those fouls btw. When you jump straight up and lean your head over someone that much shorter than you and win the ball, you didn't go over the back of the player, you were just above his head. Some of those fouls should have been on the Myanmar guys trying to box him out.
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    I finally watched the Qatar game from Toulon last night (got sidetracked yesterday watch coverage of the Sepp Blatter stuff). Pretty much a meh game. We made 8 lineups changes between Sunday and yesterday, so it was a very disjointed side (that's what you get when you're playing your 4th game in 7 days). Julian Green scored and looked all around pretty good, but that's about all that I took from it. I also thought that Jordan Morris looked pretty good again when he came on for a late cameo, but nothing special. We used our 3rd different GK, and basically seemed to use it as a game to give everyone on the squad some time (plus Qatar seemed pretty awful). In summary, I wish I had that 90 minutes of my life back. That should also be it for this tourney for us, as to make the 3rd place game, we'd need Costa Rica to not beat Qatar (seems unlikely with how bad Qatar is) and also need France to beat the Netherlands by 3 goals (unlikely). We did kinda get screwed in the draw, as we were forced to play in the first 4 gamedays for our group and now tomorrow is our day off after we're already done. Oh well.

    I also watched some of the NY Cosmos game in Cuba yesterday. Quite the interesting roster that the Cosmos have put together. Raul is finishing out his career with them (he's 37 now and clearly well past his prime, however that's a pretty good coup for a NASL side), they've somehow got Andres Flores who's one of the better players on El Salvador's national team (he captained them at the Central American Cup last year), and they've got a US "blast from the past" in Danny Szetela. Seeing Szetela kinda puts all of these U20 and U23 guys in perspective for me, as at one time he as a rising star that played on the 07 U20 team that had a lot of success, played in the 08 Olympics, and got his first national team cap as a 20 year old. Now, 8 years later, he's playing in the NASL as a 27 year old in what should be the prime of his career (he did have a bunch of injuries, but it makes me worry that I'll be seeing Stuart Holden and Josh Gatt playing for the Cosmos in about 3-4 years).
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    Crazy turn of events in Toulon...Qatar is able to draw Costa Rica, and then France just pounded the Netherlands 4-0. This lands us in 2nd place in our group and heading to the 3rd place game on Sunday. Looks like we'll most likely be meeting up with England if everything falls as expected with tomorrow's games.
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    Lots of action over the past 24 hours...

    In Toulon, Morocco beat Mexico today 2-1 (was 1-1 early in the second when Morocco went down to 10 men, but they scored against the run of play to win it) to win the other group. England won their game to finish 2nd, so we'll play them on Sunday in the 3rd place game. We should be a pretty good dog I'd think, as they've got the strong squad based on what I've seen so far in this tourney.

    At the U20's last night, we got pounded 3-0. A bit of a weird game, as we seemed to really be on the back foot (keep in mind that we'd already advanced, but needed at least a draw to win the group), rested Rubin until bringing him on for a late cameo (sure we wanted to keep him fresh), didn't play Miazga (he was on a yellow and would have been suspended with another one), and just came out flat and very defensive. Got to halftime at 0-0, but then once Ukraine found the net, the floodgates opened for them a bit. Still thought that Carter-Vickers put in a pretty nice performance in the back. Zelalem really got marked out of the match and was forced to come get the ball a lot deeper and with his back to goal where he wasn't nearly as effective. He seems to be a guy that needs to be running at people and attacking, and Ukraine did a nice job of taking him out of that. Good news is no one picked up a yellow, so other than the Maki Tall injury, we should be at full strength for our Round of 16 game.

    USMNT friendly @ Netherlands - It was a bit of a "B+" type lineup with several guys missing (Jozy, Dempsey, and Bedoya for starters). With the U20s, I didn't think we played quite as poorly as the score indicated, and here, I didn't think we played quite as well as the final result. Still put in a heck of a performance to come out of the Netherlands with a win, however we really could have conceded 6-7 goals today if their Dutch were "on", and they really let us off the hook to keep us in it. Thought that Yedlin looked fantastic off the bench and really gave us a spark, and Michael Bradley had another really solid game keeping us in it when it didn't seem like anyone else for us could control the ball. Still don't think that Brek Shea belongs in the back and don't understand why we don't just keep Fabian Johnson back there (my prediction that if JK makes the switch by the time the Gold Cup comes around, or by the Group stage if he still hasn't done it).

    Since I haven't done it in a while, here would be my lineup to start the Gold Cup if everyone was healthy...
    Guzan
    Cameron
    Brooks
    Gonzo
    F Johnson

    Beckerman
    Bradley

    Bedoya
    Dempsey
    Diskerud

    Jozy

    I know that Zardes is playing for us a lot right now, but I don't see him as one of the top 11. I also don't actually see Cameron being used at outside back since Jurgen seems to think he's not an outside back, but I really feel better about him than any other option right now (I wasn't that impressed with Chandler today, but I guess he's the next best option). If Jones is healthy, I'd probably work him in there alongside Beckerman and push Bradley forward (probably moving to a 4-4-2 then, dropping Diskerud and going to the diamond), but I get the sense that he might not be good to go in time.
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited June 2015
    I'm really not sure what to take away from the Netherlands game. The US defenders were terrible but the most glaring errors seemed to be the CB's losing their marks (i.e. letting Huntelaar get in between them). If you want to put an optimistic spin on it, this is something that can certainly be worked on in practice as it seemed to be a matter of focus and positioning (from young guys) rather than a failure of talent/skill. On the flip side, the Netherland's D was more non-existent than bad at times, so I'm not sure how you judge that. You're right, the US could/should have given up several more goals, but you could say the same of the Netherlands. Earlier in the match (I want to say mostly 1H), we hit a post and put 2-3 solid chances right at the keeper. At some point before the comeback, I remember telling my wife the score could easily be like 4-4 or 5-5. I really don't know how to judge the match on the whole b/c playing a world power that puts up that type of defensive performance (or lack thereof) is pretty much an anomaly. I guess you just try to judge some of the individual performances like any other game. So on that note, I thought Bradley obviously played well, agree with you on Yedlin, agree Shea isn't the answer at LB (although I'll take your bet as I don't think we'll see Johnson there, I think it will be Shea or Garza), am beginning to believe that Morris does have a future once he gains more experience, thought Beckerman was solid in cleaning up some defensive mistakes, and still like Johannsson (although I think he needs to be of a complimentary forward to Jozy/Clint).

    As for a personal preferred lineup, it would take me a while to pick my own right now as we have several options (and not necessarily in a good way like the WNT), some who could be played in various positions, so I'm not going to even try at this point. I'll chime in closer to the Gold Cup. The fact that some decisions are formation-dependent and I can't tell what JK's preferred formation is also makes it tricky. I will say that I'm souring on Mix (I know NYCFC is bad, but he's really not done nearly as well as I expected) and since I'm convinced Johnson will be deployed at outside mid (likely with Bedoya), I don't see him starting and I'm not sure I want him to. Still think Zardes is more athleticism than skill, but I don't hate him. No idea who I want at CB with Brooks. I've never been a Gonzo fan, but no one is super appealing to me right now and I could probably pick a name out of a hat and be fine with it. I wanted Brooks/Alvarado look better as I'd love for us to install a young pair who could be there together for a long time, but it's probably best to have a more experienced player alongside Brooks right now.

    That's enough rambling for now. Bring on the women!
  • bravesbraves Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    I think this guy is the best there is in the states regarding analyzing a game. Very solid write up here, and I'd follow him if you are a fan of the USMNT. Two articles. One predicting our GC squad, and second on the Dutch game.


    http://www.mlssoccer.com/goldcup/2015/news/article/2015/06/03/armchair-analyst-predicting-jurgen-klinsmanns-23-man-usmnt-gold-cup-roster

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/goldcup/2015/news/article/2015/06/05/armchair-analyst-energy-surge-speed-kills-more-usmnt-win-over-netherlands
  • bravesbraves Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    I'd take Beslar over Brooks at this point, and my prediction JK prefers him as well. Just my two cents on that
  • bravesbraves Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    braves wrote: »
    I'd take Beslar over Brooks at this point, and my prediction JK prefers him as well. Just my two cents on that
    The more I think about it, I think It is Brook"s spot to lose. He seems to be a Jk favorite. I'd prefer the experience of Beslar, especially against Mexico or Costa Rica


    I'm with goats on Mix. He isn't In Good form, but he appears to be a Jk favorite .. The author above really makes the case that Fellhaber or Kjlestan should be given a chance, but they don't appear to be in Jk"s plan... Fellhaber has arguably been the best player in the Mls this year
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited June 2015
    braves wrote: »
    The more I think about it, I think It is Brook"s spot to lose. He seems to be a Jk favorite.

    This is pretty much why I phrased it as who to play CB "with Brooks."

    The Feilhaber opinion seems to be a very popular one, but as you said, doesn't look like he's going to be given a shot b/c he's not part of the plan.
  • bravesbraves Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    Goats wrote: »
    This is pretty much why I phrased it as who to play CB "with Brooks."

    The Feilhaber opinion seems to be a very popular one, but as you said, doesn't look like he's going to be given a shot b/c he's not part of the plan.

    Everything I've read is that he had a great year at Hertha this year( Brooks). Unfortunately, I watch very little of that league because it isn't televised on any channels that I'm aware of. I think it is on Fox starting next season, which will be great.

    I've just never walked away thinking," wow Brooks had a great game", but I got to remember he is still really young at only 22.

    As for the woman, great game by Solo. Looks like we got stuck in a pretty challenging group.
  • GoatsGoats Head Moderator
    edited June 2015
    braves wrote: »
    Everything I've read is that he had a great year at Hertha this year( Brooks). Unfortunately, I watch very little of that league because it isn't televised on any channels that I'm aware of. I think it is on Fox starting next season, which will be great.

    I've just never walked away thinking," wow Brooks had a great game", but I got to remember he is still really young at only 22.

    As for the woman, great game by Solo. Looks like we got stuck in a pretty challenging group.

    I try to mention this every so often (unless no one is responding but Tommy since he already knows) but I watch almost no games outside of international and MLS. Before this season, I didn't even watch MLS. I do think I follow both US teams pretty closely and read a good deal about them, but always take my opinions with a grain of salt b/c with our foreign-based players, I'm usually going on the handful of internationals I've watched and reports about their club form (like you with Brooks and Hertha). FWIW, while we're talking CB's, I've seen SKC play a couple times this year but haven't come away thinking Besler is playing particularly well or poorly. My impression (which could be off) from reading some opinions is that he's not having the greatest season compared to the past so that coupled with JK's exclusions make me wonder if he's falling a bit down the pecking order. That said, I did also read somewhere that JK left some MLS guys back to help their teams that really need them (i.e. Gonzo) and perhaps Besler falls into the category.

    On to the women. I could actually write extensively on the WNT but don't have the energy right now so I'll keep it brief-ish. They played like absolute shit for most of the 1st half, Rapinoe got a lucky deflection (but that's soccer) and Solo made several great saves. While still far from their best, they obviously improved in the 2H and Australia seemed to eventually totally run out of gas which also led to a less-frantic game, thus helping the US (and this may not be the first time the US depth and fitness helps us this way).

    The group is challenging no doubt. Based on what countries were in which pots, think about this, Germany drew Ivory Coast and Thailand out of those two pots, the US drew Nigeria and Australia. Pretty staggering differences there. That said, Australia was always seen as pretty good and very fast, and their relentless attack in the 1H made them look dangerous. Once we weathered the storm, however, Australia tired and the class difference showed. Nigeria was a bit of a surprise as they were expected to be fast as well. Props to them for the comeback. That said, I'm not too worried about them b/c their defense is suspect and their Keeper made a mess of several plays so I think the US should again be able to withstand their attack and don't think we'll have too much trouble scoring.

    Lastly, I took the most away from Sweden. They did not impress me at all. Their defense has major weaknesses and two of their goals game on corners that you have to assume the US will handle far better than NIgeria b/t Solo and our back line.

    I'm may be a homer, and I give major props to the Aussie 1H and Nigeria's 90 minute performance, but while those teams looked pretty good on the attack, yesterday's matches actually gave me confidence rather than worry me about the next two. Looking forward to Friday's match with Sweden.

    OK, that was not so brief-ish, though I did have a bit more to say, like I thought the ref did a pretty poor and inconsistent job in the US match. The yellow on Rapinoe was a joke and I fear may come back to haunt us if she picks up another by the quarterfinals.
  • bravesbraves Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    Nice post, Goats.

    I only was able to watch bits and pieces of the game. I only really pay attention to the women during the Olympics and WC. They used to play very direct with Abby up top, and I'm glad they seem to have gotten away from that to a degree. I think they need a healthy and fit Alex Morgan to win the cup.

    Agree that Rapinoe's card was a joke. She is an agressive player, and I could easily see here getting another one.

    As for Beslar, his form has r improved of late. His form probably slipped more than any player with the National team after the World Cup. Him and JK had a bit of a rift regarding fitness in January , so you have to wonder if he is now out of JK's plans.
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    Never got a chance to give my thoughts on last night's game earlier (got caught up watching the women's games today and then capping the multitude of tournies/qualifiers happening right now)...

    It really was a mixed bag last night. We seemed to play very flat and tentative early, and Solo really bailed us out on a few occasions (hopefully Goats destroyed the e-mail that I sent him a few months ago bitching about all the bad publicity that Solo brought on the team and me saying that I didn't care if we just moved on and left her out of the squad this summer). She had no chance on their goal, and without her, it easily could have been 2-0 or 3-0 before we found our legs. Disappointed with some of the ball watching of our back line (watching the goal again, we ended up with like 9 players on the side of the field with the ball, and no one at all staying home to protect the back side.

    The two players that I "root for" the most are Lloyd and Krieger, so as I watch a USWNT game, I'm always kinda focused on both of them. Lloyd is from South Jersey and I actually lived in her hometown (Delran) during her last year or two of high school and read about her in the paper all the time. And Ali Krieger is a Penn State alum (and don't think I'll let the chance pass for a shout out for Raquel Rodriguez, current PSU captain, for scoring for Costa Rica today). Neither of them played overly well last night, but also didn't think they were awful either.

    Rapinoe was obviously the difference in the game (the goals were key, but her ability to hold the ball, create chances, relieve pressure, etc seemed to be lacking from everyone else in the midfield last night). Having Morgan go a full 90 will be nice, and until the goal, I didn't think that Press played all that well. On another night, Wambach would have had one if not two goals, so I probably shouldn't be as disappointed with the 3-1 win as I was.

    I don't really know what to think of the next two games. I thought Nigeria was overrated coming into the tourney and it looked like it for a while, but then Sweden really seemed to wear down as the game went along (and I expected the exact opposite).

    Not sure if I'll be able to take 7 games of Tony DiCicco's announcing. He's obviously knowledgeable, but he comes across as such a "know it all" to me when he does games. He gives off the vibe that he knows he's the smartest guy in the room.

    On the men's side, I saw an article in the past few days about JK mentioning that Brooks seems to have a starting CB spot to lose at this point. Also saw today that Julian Green will be heading back to Europe and won't join the Gold Cup squad. I'm happy, as A) I don't think he's one of our best 23 right now, or even 46 for that matter and B) locking down a good club situation is of the utmost importance to him right now.

    Looking forward to the U-20's tonight. We've had plenty of rest, so outside of Maki Tall, we should be ready to go. I really think we've got a great shot to win it tonight.
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    Where is Green going? He's still owned by Bayern right?
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    durito wrote: »
    Where is Green going? He's still owned by Bayern right?

    Yes, he's still with Bayern, but the assumption seems to be that they'll loan him out again this season and hopefully find somewhere that he'll actually see first team minutes. The loan this past year worked out horribly. Based on what I saw in Toulon, I really can't see him being at the point right now where he'll get consistent minutes at another team in the Bundisliga. In my opinion, he'd be perfect with something like a Bundisliga 2 side where he'll get 30-35 games rather than continuing to risk another season on the bench.
  • bravesbraves Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    TommyL wrote: »
    Yes, he's still with Bayern, but the assumption seems to be that they'll loan him out again this season and hopefully find somewhere that he'll actually see first team minutes. The loan this past year worked out horribly. Based on what I saw in Toulon, I really can't see him being at the point right now where he'll get consistent minutes at another team in the Bundisliga. In my opinion, he'd be perfect with something like a Bundisliga 2 side where he'll get 30-35 games rather than continuing to risk another season on the bench.

    What a wasted year for him at an age when he needs to be playing. Jordan Morris looks to be the better prospect right now, and who would have ever thought that 12 months ago( I didn't even know who Jordan Morris was 12 mths ago).
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    I guess Bayern's B teams plays in Bundesliga 3 and can't advance from there, but seems like that would have been a better option.
  • TommyLTommyL Super Moderator
    edited June 2015
    braves wrote: »
    What a wasted year for him at an age when he needs to be playing. Jordan Morris looks to be the better prospect right now, and who would have ever thought that 12 months ago( I didn't even know who Jordan Morris was 12 mths ago).

    The perplexing thing about Morris is that many seem to think that it's almost a lock that he is heading back to Stanford again to play his junior year. He showed me more than I was expecting in Toulon, and he's really grown on me a lot in the past month (I had a hard time getting past the fact that we were capping a forward that scored 4 goals playing NCAA Division 1 soccer last year).
  • bravesbraves Senior Member
    edited June 2015
    TommyL wrote: »
    The perplexing thing about Morris is that many seem to think that it's almost a lock that he is heading back to Stanford again to play his junior year. He showed me more than I was expecting in Toulon, and he's really grown on me a lot in the past month (I had a hard time getting past the fact that we were capping a forward that scored 4 goals playing NCAA Division 1 soccer last year).

    He already decided to go back to Stanford I thought. He turned down a "good" offer from Seattle. I'll worry if he doesn't turn PRO after this season. He needs make the jump soon
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