Betting Talk

Tax question/CTR's.....

sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
edited August 2014 in Sports Betting
If you are claiming your gambling winnings for the year on your taxes, is there any reason to shy away from depositing over the 10k threshold in cash at banks and having to do a CTR every time? Feel like you are just asking for extra scrutiny from the IRS/DOJ etc but aren't you already doing that by being legit and filing your gambling income on your taxes? My understanding is with all the software out there now, banks DOJ/IRS are really cracking down on "structuring" deposits and with the software, it's pretty easy to get caught. In the past I was always wary of depositing more than 10K but it seems if you are filing anyway, that is the most legit way to handle your bankroll with financial institutions.

Comments

  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Just deposit it all at once imo.
  • sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    durito wrote: »
    Just deposit it all at once imo.

    Yeah my friend who is a banker said the same more or less. Said they have large sums of cash deposited all the time and it isn't a big deal. He said if he wasn't a drug dealer, a terrorist, or a thief, he wouldn't think twice about depositing it and doing the CTR. However, while not a drug dealer, terrorist, or thief, being a gambler does kinda fall into a gray area. I want convenience and peace of mind but I also don't want to be audited every 3 or 4 years.
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited August 2014
    Why in the world would you report all of your income like that. Just deposit less than 5k at a time. Unless your making a million dollars, if you don't have a W-2, there's no way you'll ever be audited depositing less than 5k at a clip.
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited August 2014
    If you don't like the constant cash deposits, just pay cash for a greendot moneypak (max $500). Then use it to fund your paypal account. Link it with your bank account and do ACH deposits for under 10k. Paypal only reports to the IRS if you do over 200 transactions AND over $20,000. You could do just under $100k before you hit 200 transactions. Problem solved.
  • sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Jafar wrote: »
    If you don't like the constant cash deposits, just pay cash for a greendot moneypak (max $500). Then use it to fund your paypal account. Link it with your bank account and do ACH deposits for under 10k. Paypal only reports to the IRS if you do over 200 transactions AND over $20,000. You could do just under $100k before you hit 200 transactions. Problem solved.

    Could you further explain the moneypak scenario? Are you saying move money from there to pay pal at 500 a clip and then from pay pal to my bank account? The long and short of it is that I would like to move about 140k in currency from gambling into my bank accounts before Dec 1 to be used for a purchase. I was advised that recently software and enforcement regarding structuring (SAR's) were a lot more aggressive than it use to be. If I can document the winning sessions, I would be better off doing a CTR and just depositing it all at once or just doing it in two or three transactions of 40-50k. I'm not necessarily asking on how to be a bank/tax cheat but I'm also not dismissing any and all suggestions.
  • turksureturksure Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    If you got that much cash, gold, silver and or rare coins, get a friend that knows rare coins or an pawn shop dude that knows what he is doing(I know some that don't). Why worry about about the bank? GL
  • sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Because I have an option on a piece of real estate that I would like to purchase that will expire soon. I would like to use this money in that transaction, thus I need it to exist on paper.
  • turksureturksure Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Sure a small town banker in Miss could help you. good luck in the deal
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited August 2014
    sparkyl2 wrote: »
    Could you further explain the moneypak scenario? Are you saying move money from there to pay pal at 500 a clip and then from pay pal to my bank account? The long and short of it is that I would like to move about 140k in currency from gambling into my bank accounts before Dec 1 to be used for a purchase. I was advised that recently software and enforcement regarding structuring (SAR's) were a lot more aggressive than it use to be. If I can document the winning sessions, I would be better off doing a CTR and just depositing it all at once or just doing it in two or three transactions of 40-50k. I'm not necessarily asking on how to be a bank/tax cheat but I'm also not dismissing any and all suggestions.

    You are certainly not better off depositing it all. You $140k just became $90k real quick next April.

    The PayPal scenario turns the money into echecks and certainly wouldn't trigger any SARs. Just looks like you are running a business. I would use a smaller bank just to be sure but if nothing else, not Chase. Set up your PayPal as a business account. Buy the greendots (these are $500 max per card but you can buy as many cards as you want) and load em onto your PayPal account. I would then withdraw via ACH anywhere from $6-9k per week. Use weird amounts with cents as well. It will hit your bank on Friday and look like a regular Friday payday direct deposit. In addition to this, deposit like $3k per month in actual cash. Your family is allowed to give you up to $13k tax free gift per year. You could give your dad the cash for a check. Same with your mom. This is only good if your parents don't mind the cash, if they have real jobs and pay their taxes, they shouldn't be too worried about it. That would take care of $26k pretty quickly. If you did all of the above, you'd have that $140k taken care of pretty quickly.

    I wouldn't call it being a tax cheat. You worked hard for your money, why willingly give it away? Whatever you filed last year, I would file a similar amount again. Your risk of an audit in this scenario is virtually zero.
  • MikeRASMikeRAS Senior Handicapper
    edited August 2014
    Just a note, if you deposit a lot of money into the bank you may have issues with anyone looking to loan you money who will want you to document how you obtained the money. Loan people think you may have received a loan from someone and are usually concerned by undocumented money.

    Even when you win at gambling you have issues to deal with. White collar problems.
  • sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Jafar wrote: »
    You are certainly not better off depositing it all. You $140k just became $90k real quick next April.

    The PayPal scenario turns the money into echecks and certainly wouldn't trigger any SARs. Just looks like you are running a business. I would use a smaller bank just to be sure but if nothing else, not Chase. Set up your PayPal as a business account. Buy the greendots (these are $500 max per card but you can buy as many cards as you want) and load em onto your PayPal account. I would then withdraw via ACH anywhere from $6-9k per week. Use weird amounts with cents as well. It will hit your bank on Friday and look like a regular Friday payday direct deposit. In addition to this, deposit like $3k per month in actual cash. Your family is allowed to give you up to $13k tax free gift per year. You could give your dad the cash for a check. Same with your mom. This is only good if your parents don't mind the cash, if they have real jobs and pay their taxes, they shouldn't be too worried about it. That would take care of $26k pretty quickly. If you did all of the above, you'd have that $140k taken care of pretty quickly.

    I wouldn't call it being a tax cheat. You worked hard for your money, why willingly give it away? Whatever you filed last year, I would file a similar amount again. Your risk of an audit in this scenario is virtually zero.

    I appreciate the advice. I actually just went by a Walgreens and bought a moneypak card to check it out. The clerk said "I think I have to see ID now. They just started some new policy because of all the cash scams." So I show him my ID, which he proceeds to scan into the computer. Not sure what that is all about. Seems big brother is always watching!
  • sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    MikeRAS wrote: »
    Just a note, if you deposit a lot of money into the bank you may have issues with anyone looking to loan you money who will want you to document how you obtained the money. Loan people think you may have received a loan from someone and are usually concerned by undocumented money.

    Even when you win at gambling you have issues to deal with. White collar problems.


    Right. Between the proceeds from a recent sale of real estate and the income shown on my W2 I don't think the added cash in my account will set off alarm bells with a loan officer. Regardless, I want it in there by December 1st because that would allow it to be in there about 3 months prior to closing. I'm assuming the underwriter would just want to see 60 or 90 days worth of bank statements. White collar problems indeed.
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    sparkyl2 wrote: »
    Right. Between the proceeds from a recent sale of real estate and the income shown on my W2 I don't think the added cash in my account will set off alarm bells with a loan officer. Regardless, I want it in there by December 1st because that would allow it to be in there about 3 months prior to closing. I'm assuming the underwriter would just want to see 60 or 90 days worth of bank statements. White collar problems indeed.

    Since you have no problems paying the taxes, I would just do one transaction a month between now and December for the same amount.
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited August 2014
    sparkyl2 wrote: »
    I appreciate the advice. I actually just went by a Walgreens and bought a moneypak card to check it out. The clerk said "I think I have to see ID now. They just started some new policy because of all the cash scams." So I show him my ID, which he proceeds to scan into the computer. Not sure what that is all about. Seems big brother is always watching!

    That's crazy. It could be a state thing though. I know in Arizona, just to send out a Western Union they wanted my ID. But just the other day in Chicago, I bought a moneypak with no ID. Or it could be the store, maybe check out a different one.

    Another idea is to buy gold. If you bought from an individual (which obviously has risks) you wouldn't need to keep your transactions under $10k. But if you bought from a business, you would. At any rate, even if you had to stay under $10k it wouldn't take long. After you have it all, then sell it all at once to a high volume seller and have them pay you via wire. Wires aren't reported IRS.
  • JafarJafar Banned
    edited August 2014
    durito wrote: »
    Since you have no problems paying the taxes, I would just do one transaction a month between now and December for the same amount.

    Yeah, if you don't mind about getting smoked out of $50k for nothing, then all my advice is moot and just go ahead and deposit it. lol
  • sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Jafar wrote: »
    Yeah, if you don't mind about getting smoked out of $50k for nothing, then all my advice is moot and just go ahead and deposit it. lol

    I know. I hate throwing that money away. Because I'm not Ed or Billy Walters. I've had plenty of losing years where I certainly didn't claim the losses. I miss the good old days pre 9-11 when we actually had a semblance of privacy with regards to banking laws.
  • sparkyl2sparkyl2 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    [QUOTE

    Set up your PayPal as a business account. Buy the greendots (these are $500 max per card but you can buy as many cards as you want) and load em onto your PayPal account. [/QUOTE]

    Found this in their FAQs section.

    "How much money can I add to my PayPal account using the MoneyPak?
    You can add up to $4,000 a month by providing your name, address, date of birth, and Social Security Number securely online. Green Dot will collect, verify, and record this information on behalf of PayPal, but this information will not be used for a credit check or marketing purposes."
  • jmjm Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    i'm very heavily involved in manufacturing spend. CVS has a $5K limit on selling moneypaks and walgreens is pretty hit or miss. If you plan to buy hte moneypaks, load them to paypal, then immediately cash them out to your bankaccount, paypal will shut your account down. They're not in business to transfer money at their expense.
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