Betting Talk

Cavs for Love Trade

BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
edited August 2014 in Sports Betting
Anybody else think the price is too high ?

Wiggins, Bennett, next year 1st round

That would be 3 first rounders .

Don't get me wrong I like Love but shit it's not like you are trading for Durant.

Comments

  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    Anybody else think the price is too high ?

    Yep, but whatever LBJ wants they will try and accomodate.
  • jammerjammer Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    Bennett is still an unknown project at this point, and next years #1 pick I would assume would be in the lower third of the 1st round based on the Cavs record. Cavs fortunate to even have Wiggins as they had a 1.7% chance of landing the first pick. Plus, seems like everyone is saying Lebron, being 30, has 5-6 years left at the top of his game, but who knows. Love would most likely give him the best chance of winning another title in that time frame.

    So- a player they had a 1.7% chance of getting, plus an unproven project, plus a low 1st rounder next year for Love. I think I would do that.
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    It's an interesting dilemma. On the one hand you've got a guy like Kevin Love who would no doubt help Cleveland's chances of winning a championship in the next couple of years, but then you've also got a kid who in three or four years could be something very special. Not an easy decision. If it was me calling the shots, I'd be inclined to hang onto Wiggins and hope he turns into the player everyone thinks he can be, but the bottom line is, Lebron will be making this decision and it seems like he wants Love, so I'm expecting the trade to happen.
  • spiderman77spiderman77 Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    I live in Cleveland, so I have been at the center of all of the LeBron hoopla from day one. If they do trade for Love, I will not support the team. This will be the same type of team (I.e. The Heat of 2010) that virtually every Cleveland fan, myself included, bitched about and felt it was destroying the competitiveness of the league. A lot of fans feel the same way, although they won't go so far as to not root for the team. Dan Gilbert is a hypocrite if he makes this trade. And I also think it further tarnishes LeBron's legacy in that he has to assemble super teams to win titles. With all of that said, I agree, they will make the trade because that it what LeBron wants.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    jammer wrote: »
    Bennett is still an unknown project at this point, and next years #1 pick I would assume would be in the lower third of the 1st round based on the Cavs record. Cavs fortunate to even have Wiggins as they had a 1.7% chance of landing the first pick. Plus, seems like everyone is saying Lebron, being 30, has 5-6 years left at the top of his game, but who knows. Love would most likely give him the best chance of winning another title in that time frame.

    So- a player they had a 1.7% chance of getting, plus an unproven project, plus a low 1st rounder next year for Love. I think I would do that.

    That's the gist of it....get to championship as soon as possible, and don't worry about later and what if's is the way they are looking at it...if you have the opportunity to get a top complimenting player like Love who is mid 20's and proven to commit to a non major market team you take advantage of it. Can Wiggins be the next big star absolutely but it is not a given....can Bennett be the most improved rookie year over year possibly but still a bigger gamble...I would obtain Love and be an instant contender, that's just the nature of the business aspect of it these days...and Lebron is obviously telling them he doesn't want to be a teacher and mentor at this point.
  • Obi OneObi One Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    Anybody else think the price is too high ?

    If Love/James combo wins a championship in Cleveland, then the price was not too high, because that's the ultimate goal. It's when the combo doesn't win a championship that you can compare numbers, what coulda, shoulda etc etc. But that's all speculation.

    Putting myself in Cleveland's GM's shoes (which are basically LeBron's shoes) I'd look at it this way:
    With LeBron and Love as the 2 biggest contracts and Kyrie also on the roster, Cleveland becomes the spot where proven veterans want to go. They can basically pick who they want, because almost everybody with a championship on their mind would want to join. So it shouldn't be a problem to build the kind of roster they'd want. Now if they go the other way, where they keep Bennett and Wiggins, and they perform up to the level of 1st round picks, you'd be looking at another 2 big contracts (3 or 4 years) down the road, which simply is not going to fit.

    Imo, Kevin Love is the way to go. And Minnesota knows that.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    I live in Cleveland, so I have been at the center of all of the LeBron hoopla from day one. If they do trade for Love, I will not support the team. This will be the same type of team (I.e. The Heat of 2010) that virtually every Cleveland fan, myself included, bitched about and felt it was destroying the competitiveness of the league. A lot of fans feel the same way, although they won't go so far as to not root for the team. Dan Gilbert is a hypocrite if he makes this trade. And I also think it further tarnishes LeBron's legacy in that he has to assemble super teams to win titles. With all of that said, I agree, they will make the trade because that it what LeBron wants.

    Batman can't win without Robin. Jordan didn't win until Pippin. Great trade for Cleveland. It's a now world.
  • spiderman77spiderman77 Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    Old-Timer wrote: »
    Batman can't win without Robin. Jordan didn't win until Pippin. Great trade for Cleveland. It's a now world.

    Never said it wasn't a good trade. It is, at least for the short term.

    Pippen was drafted by the Bulls and developed along side of MJ. That's an apples to oranges comparison. And why can't Irving be his Pippen? He needs multiple Pippen's? That's why he will never ever be as great as MJ.
  • procapprocap Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    I think the trade is a no-brainer for Cleveland, but I'm not sold on it being enticing enough for Minnesota at this point. Since the draft pick is unprotected (even w/o a trade, the Cavs are likely to be a top 2 team in the East) and Bennett seems to be a bust, one could argue this trade more or less comes down to Wiggins for Love. I think the Twolves would be much better off playing this thing out and then pursuing a Love trade during the regular season. Of course, you run the risk of Wiggins exploding and the offer coming off the table, but that's a risk I'd be willing to take and there's always the chance of teams like Golden State, Boston, etc upping their offer.
  • procapprocap Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    It should be noted I'm not particularly high on Wiggins.
  • Old-TimerOld-Timer Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    Never said it wasn't a good trade. It is, at least for the short term.

    Pippen was drafted by the Bulls and developed along side of MJ. That's an apples to oranges comparison. And why can't Irving be his Pippen? He needs multiple Pippen's? That's why he will never ever be as great as MJ.

    IMO comparing LeBron to Jordan is apples and oranges two different type players. I could be mistaken but didn't Pippin come in after Jordan. K. Irving is going to have to grow up a little which is going to be difficult in the beginning.
  • duritodurito Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    procap wrote: »
    It should be noted I'm not particularly high on Wiggins.

    Yea and Cleveland runs the risk of him being terrible and then that trade looks like crap to Minnesota. I'd do it right now if I was Cleveland.
  • kanekane Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    ESPN is running a survey asking if you were the GM of the Cavs, would you trade Wiggins for Love? The state of Ohio is voting no 56% yes44%. I find that very surprising, and with 17,000 votes it seems like a large enough sample size. The country as a whole is voting just the opposite, 56% would trade Wiggins.
  • RonbetsRonbets Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    Anyone here ever watch Kevin Love play defense? ....................I didn't think so.
  • MikeRASMikeRAS Senior Handicapper
    edited July 2014
    The 93-94 Bulls went 55-27 games the year Jordan was gone whiffing at baseballs. He had a pretty good team around him by the time he was winning titles. People love to glorify the guy and he's of course the greatest but he didn't do it alone.

    The Cavs sucked last year, the idea that if they get Love and Lebron they become some type of unfair super team is wrong IMO. Jordan isn't winning a title by joining this years Cavs team without some additional help either.
  • TheRebTheReb Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    Although it remains to be seen, I tend to agree with his thoughts on AB's potential this year, guess we'll see how it all plays out and if he even gets the chance to play with Lebron...http://rightdowneuclid.com/2014/07/18/curious-case-anthony-bennett-bust-breakout/
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited July 2014
    Odds makers before the trade have them as Big favorites for Eastern conference and favorites to win it all. Wonder what it goes to if the trade happens.
  • KashmirKashmir Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    I wouldn't trade Wiggins for Love. The draft pick is almost worthless as is Bennett.
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    i know i am a little late to the convo but i am in the camp that believes you trade the whole fuckin house for love, give them whatever they want outside of LeBron and Kyrie, I mean everything Bennett, Wiggins, the next 3 years of 1st rounders, Mark Price, Brad Daugherty and Big Z - who fuckin cares. pick up 9 other guys for the veteran minimal or guys that are trying to make the league and u have yourself NBA championship squad (Kyrie just has to stay healthy)
  • talkingpracticetalkingpractice Junior Member
    edited July 2014
    i'm higher on wiggins than most of my pals in the analytics crowd due to his potential on defense, but id still make the trade. thinking of whats best post-lebron is not part of the equation imo... they have to do what they can to win nba championships while they have lebron, and can/should pretty much just ignore post-lebron.

    that said, i think the issue here is that even with love, their defense is likely to be atrocious. they'd still have no rim protector, lebron can't play d nearly the way that he did a few years ago, kyrie/dion are absolute sieves, etc. love's only real skill on defense is rebounding, and they already have defensive rebounding. he's an awful defender in transition, doesn't make 2nd/3rd rotations, etc. i guess he's a bit of an underrated post defender, but that's not that important in the modern nba anyway.

    it won't matter if they score 120 pts per game though, and i'd definitely still make the trade.
  • Obi OneObi One Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    TP,

    from your experience (or numbers),
    Which skill is easier to add to your repertoire as a player, playing good defense or 3-point shooting?
    Just wondering whether Cavs should take their time with Bennet and Wiggins, who have the defensive potential and could develop a reliable 3-point shot.

    If the Cavs can't defend with Love on board as you say, I'm pretty sure the likes of Carlisle or Popovich/ Messina can design a strategy in 1 or 2 years to exploit that to the point where the Cavs model falls apart.

    Another question: Do you believe David Blatt can handle the jump to an NBA contender? Or will it be LeBron James player/coach?
  • eug44eug44 Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    Obi One wrote: »
    TP,

    from your experience (or numbers),
    Which skill is easier to add to your repertoire as a player, playing good defense or 3-point shooting?
    Just wondering whether Cavs should take their time with Bennet and Wiggins, who have the defensive potential and could develop a reliable 3-point shot.

    If the Cavs can't defend with Love on board as you say, I'm pretty sure the likes of Carlisle or Popovich/ Messina can design a strategy in 1 or 2 years to exploit that to the point where the Cavs model falls apart.

    Another question: Do you believe David Blatt can handle the jump to an NBA contender? Or will it be LeBron James player/coach?

    There is no skill set harder to develop than to play defense in basketball. IMO Lebron, Kyrie and Love are individually completely un-guardable and are probably more deadly as a tandem.
  • talkingpracticetalkingpractice Junior Member
    edited July 2014
    Obi One wrote: »
    TP,

    from your experience (or numbers),
    Which skill is easier to add to your repertoire as a player, playing good defense or 3-point shooting?
    Just wondering whether Cavs should take their time with Bennet and Wiggins, who have the defensive potential and could develop a reliable 3-point shot.

    If the Cavs can't defend with Love on board as you say, I'm pretty sure the likes of Carlisle or Popovich/ Messina can design a strategy in 1 or 2 years to exploit that to the point where the Cavs model falls apart.

    Another question: Do you believe David Blatt can handle the jump to an NBA contender? Or will it be LeBron James player/coach?

    i'm not sure if 3pt shooting or D is harder to add. but, one problem with wiggins is that his undervalued skill (the potential to be a lockdown wing defender) is something that is very undervalued throughout the league. therefore, it's easier to acquire on the cheap (guys like demarre carroll, sefolosha, etc).

    one thing re: bennett - he has less defensive potential than my 7 year old daughter does. the kid got a bad rap due to being picked #1 and showing up to camp in awful shape (and covering that up with silly excuses), and he looked nice in summer league, and has a chance to be quite a good offensive player. but id be shocked if hes ever an above average defender.

    im pretty confident that blatt is going to be a solid coach. atvl hes going to run some sort of structured offense (unlike last season under brown).
  • increasedoddincreasedodd Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    You haven't won anything in 50 years.

    You have the best player in basketball.

    You add Love now because it gives you a 25%+ percent chance of winning the title each of the next 5 years. You don't wait and hope someone develops in 4 years. You might get greatness but you have greatness now. He's not likely to be better than Lebron
  • sweetjones55sweetjones55 Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    BigKahuna wrote: »
    Anybody else think the price is too high ?

    Wiggins, Bennett, next year 1st round

    That would be 3 first rounders .

    Don't get me wrong I like Love but shit it's not like you are trading for Durant.

    I would definitely make the trade for Love. Bennett last year did not look like a 1st rounder, let alone a 1st overall pick.. Next years 1st round pick is not going to be all too valuable since Cleveland will go fairly deep in the Playoffs. Wiggins is at least 6-7 years away from his prime. LeBron will be past his prime at that point and Cleveland has a real shot to win right now. Wiggins may end up being a better player than Love but that's purely speculation. What we know for sure is that Love is already the best scoring/passing big in the NBA and one of the best rebounders. He's also just 25 years old and still getting better. Playing along side LeBron will only help him in his development as a player. I would still wager on the West taking down the championship no matter what Cleveland does.
  • worm33worm33 Senior Member
    edited August 2014
    Sounds like a done deal. Wiggins Bennett and protected 2015 1st rounder for love.
  • BigKahunaBigKahuna Banned
    edited August 2014
    Awfully steep price IMO.

    Atleast now we will have games in the 120's again, cuz there isn't much D going to be played on the Cavs team.
  • miller4m2miller4m2 Junior Member
    edited August 2014
    They will get some veterans (chasing a ring) to play defense.
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